Range Against the Machine¹ - Rivian OEM Wheels, Tires, and Range Considered

[tps5352]

...Do you have any data on running with a tonneau cover on the R1T? Given the impact, I'm kind of surprised that it's optional equipment.

Hadn't given it any thought as I am focused on the R1S. But my buddy Google tells me that P/U bed covers do make an impact--e.g., maybe as much as 10% fuel economy improvement.

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[tps5352]

I think the EPA "Where the Energy Goes" site deserves a reference somewhere in this writeup.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml

I like how it shows a stark comparison of inefficiencies between ICE, hybrid, and EV's.

I added that website to the references list in the OP. Thanks.

 

[usulio]

You should edit this conclusion:

* If you happen to be searching for the maximum range, try to get a vehicle with 20-inch wheels and 275/65R20 tires to start with. The selection of available replacement tires is largest.

Rivian no longer sells that size tire with new vehicles AFAIK. The (edit Goodyear ATs offered with Gen 2 are 275/60R20, which is even better for ease of swapping with high-efficiency options in the same size.

 

[usulio]

By the way, and no offense to OP, but the TL;DR is very simple.

* If you want maximum range, buy the model advertised as having maximum range.
* There is no magical aftermarket tire but there are options about as good as OEM.
* Factors such as temperature, elevation gain, and especially driving speed can affect your range significantly.

 

[tps5352]

You should edit this conclusion:

* If you happen to be searching for the maximum range, try to get a vehicle with 20-inch wheels and 275/65R20 tires to start with. The selection of available replacement tires is largest.

Rivian no longer sells that size tire with new vehicles AFAIK. The BFG ATs offered with Gen 2 are 275/60R20, which is even better for ease of swapping with high-efficiency options in the same size.

Thanks for pointing that out. I see that Rivian must have JUST changed its "Build" pages. (Bad timing for me. I'll have to do more research, possibly revise the analysis, and, as you suggest, edit conclusions.)

Initially, it does appear from the Rivian website that all the R1S and R1T may now be coming either with 20" wheels with 275/60R20 tires or 22" wheels with 275/50R22 tires. If those are the only two choices it is interesting, because both use ~33" diameter tires (albeit with different sidewall heights and treads) and as you point out an owner could more easily switch between 20" and 22" wheels without having to reprogram the speedometer software.

Maybe Rivian got tired of all the requests for speedometer re-calibration?

Seriously, the information I provided still applies to all the thousands of Gen 1 and (early) Gen 2 trucks and wheel-sets out there. And Rivian accessory wheels and tires may be sold over-the-counter to customers for some time. And the third-party tire shops will probably continue to stock the 275/65R20 tire models, I imagine.

So drivers may still choose to install Rivian 20" wheels (if needed) and 275/65R20 tires (if desired). But coming from a Rivian OEM situation, it would require that the speedometer software be adjusted.

But it appears you are right; changes are required. Things seem to change so quickly in Rivian-land, who knows what it will be like in a year, let alone 5 years?

 

[kanundrum]

Well done research and commendable on your in depths analysis, I am somewhat doing the same but combining efficiency with grip those are my two important factors with efficiency being 2nd to grip.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/creating-the-ultimate-wheel-tire-combo-help-needed.28284/

See pics of my 22s chunking because I maybe pushing it too hard on the turns

 

[not_a_car_guy]

• Certain wheel and tire designs and sizes—e.g., high-performance and off-road tires, and some non-stock sizes and designs.

Interestingly you didn't mention the weight of the wheels and tires. I thought rotational mass of the wheel/tire combo can impact efficiency, especially for city driving with a lot of starts/stops. Maybe it's just not a significant factor?

Did your research mention anything about this at all?

 

[docwhiz]

Interestingly you didn't mention the weight of the wheels and tires. I thought rotational mass of the wheel/tire combo can impact efficiency, especially for city driving with a lot of starts/stops. Maybe it's just not a significant factor?

Did your research mention anything about this at all?

I think Regen cancels out the start stop wheel mass effect.

 

[tps5352]

Interestingly you didn't mention the weight of the wheels and tires. I thought rotational mass of the wheel/tire combo can impact efficiency, especially for city driving with a lot of starts/stops. Maybe it's just not a significant factor?

Did your research mention anything about this at all?

Weight is an issue that I did not focus on. Weight, especially at the outer edge of the tire (i.e., the tread) would tend to inhibit the tire's ability to overcome inertia, start to move and continue moving, correct? And yet for safety and longevity purposes, you might want a deeper, more robust (heavier) tire tread? (Unfortunately, my knowledge of physics and engineering is limited.)

<More on this.>

After further consideration, I think discussions of weight are initially (and still) missing because I chose early on not to analyze optional aftermarket tire brand-model specifications. That could require a whole other (or "nother") equally long (if not longer) post. (Is there anyone who wants that?)

Instead the OP analysis attempts to point out (a) what Rivian owners can expect to start with, vis-à-vis OEM wheels and tires, and (b) some logical pathways they can/might pursue in searching for additional range. And it provides some helpful online tools (e.g., tire-size calculators and Rivian tire guides). But it pointedly leaves the actual comparison and selection of optional tires to readers. There are many factors involved in selecting tires. Weight is just one. I can't pretend to know what is best for all drivers. (Plus, there are already [long] threads in this forum site about tire size choices.)

All that said, the online tire-guide references in the OP do provide tire weights, plus tread depths, links to tire shop and tire manufacturer websites where tread design photos and specifications, prices, et cetera can be found--in short, most everything needed to make informed decisions on replacement tires. The OP can help a reader choose a pathway (i.e., what size and type of tire to end up with). Actual choice from among individual tire brands and models is left to the reader.

 

[tps5352]

FYI, I've added a summary covering the four Rivian OEM wheel-tire size combinations here. As always, I welcome correction (where needed), for example if and when exactly Rivian switched from 275/65R20 tires to 275/60R20 tires.

 

[tps5352]

Since developing the OP I have been trying to definitively pin down the actual sizes of OEM Rivian all-terrain tires on 20-inch wheels in Gen 1 and 2 vehicles. I'm pretty sure that Gen 1 vehicles came with 34-inch (275/65R20) AT tires (e.g., as indicated here). That size was convenient for owners because of an adequate selection of aftermarket replacement (AT, AS, touring) tire models in that size that met Rivian Load Index requirements.

For Gen 2 Rivian has eliminated the 21-inch wheel option and has seemed to switch to 33-inch (275/60R20) AT tires, making all available OEM tires the same diameter (for both the remaining 20" and 22" wheels). This should be convenient because it seems to eliminate tThe need to reprogram speedometer software when switching among 33" and 34" OEM wheels/tires is still necessary. (Hint, hint Rivian: How about an onboard software option to switch among OEM wheel/tire sizes?) But it may prove less convenient if there are actually fewer aftermarket replacement tire brand-models with a safe Load Index of at least 116.

However and perhaps not surprisingly, there remains possible contradictory oOnline evidence:

• Rivian's 20 in All-Terrain Wheel and Tire Set "Gear-Shop" webpage continues to indicate that the all-terrain tire is:
  |
  • Pirelli Scorpion AT Plus,
  • 275/65R20, and
  • 34" in diameter.
    |
    It may be that the Rivian website is simply out-of-date, or that the 34-inch wheel-tire set is intended as a replacement for Gen 1 vehicles or an optional accessory for Gen 2 vehicles.
    |
• Websites like Tire Rack and Simple Tire and Pirelli itself that indicate:
  |
  • Pirelli tires in the 275/60R20 size appear to have a Load Index of just 115, which is supposedly slightly too low for Rivian Light Truck vehicles.
    |
    I am unsure exactly which tire brand-model is intended for the Tri Max vehicles. The Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT 33-inch tires offered on the Dual Standard vehicles have a (just satisfactory) Load Index of 116. If 33-inch Pirelli Scorpion AT Plus tires are to be used, perhaps there is a special OEM version that meets the Rivian Load Index requirement?

But I spoke by phone to a representative at a Rivian service center (West Sacramento, California). They investigated and verbally reported that: Tri Max vehicles with the optional All-Terrain Package will come with 33-inch (275/60R20) all-terrain tires.

• Dual Max vehicles with the AT Package will continue to be outfitted with 34-inch (275/65R20) AT tires. (If true, this is both pleasing and surprising to me.)
• Why the difference? According to the service rep, possibly due to weight or power differences between the two versions (Dual & Tri)?
• The Rivian SC would probably be amenable to swapping, say, 33s to 34s (e.g., after purchase). (And, I assume, reprogram the software accordingly.)

I remain cautious about this information. Based on my experience with Tesla, troops at the front lines may not be privy to the latest corporate-headquarters thinking. And as is true for most manufacturers, specifications and policies can change at any time and may even vary from SC to SC.

When it comes time for me to order a specific Rivian vehicle, I plan to work closely with Rivian representatives and to try and pin down (on paper if necessary) exactly what wheels and tires my truck can and will come with (or be switched to). I am hoping that for ~$100,000(!) there will be some reasonable wiggle room as to the choice of wheels and tires. I have learned (with the Tesla I have) that it is best (most convenient and least expensive) to try and get exactly the wheels and tires you want on a new vehicle right from the start.

 

[tps5352]

Just noticed that some key links (e.g., to online Rivian tire databases) in the body of the OP were not working. Sorry about that. Repaired, I hope.

*****​

FYI, I hope to eventually revise the OP in order to address:

• Length (make the post more concise)
• Plus topics of tire
  • weight,
  • rolling-resistance, and
  • efficiency

as they affect range.​

However, I have yet to find convenient reference sites that list comparable indices of efficiency for Rivian-sized tires. (And some argue that with regard to range these factors are over-shadowed by other, more important, considerations.)

Something to work on over the holidays, perhaps?

 

[tps5352]

It has been a month since I created the OP. But I have not definitively confirmed the current (Gen 2) status of all-terrain tires--specifically, are they now all 33-inch (275/60R20) or are some vehicles still receiving 34-inch (275/65R20) tires?

I would appreciate hearing from drivers of Gen 2 (starting June 2024) Dual, Dual Max, and Tri Max R1T and R1S who ordered the All-Terrain Package. What model do you have, what size tires did your vehicle come, with and when did you buy? Thanks.

 

[tps5352]

The current (as of 12/03/24) Rivian Gear Page website provides some interesting wheel and tire data:

Rivian Gear Page Wheels and Tires Information​

Wheel Size	Tire Type	Brand/ Model	Tire Size	Tread Depth	Total Weight	Range Reduction	Compatibility
20"​	All-Terrain​	Pirelli Scorpion AT​	34" (275/65R20)​	12/32"​	86 lb.​	10 - 15%​	Gen 1 Gen 2​
20"*​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​
20"**​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​
21"​	Road​	Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS​	33: (275/55/R21)​	10/32"​	79 lb.​	0​	Gen 1​
22"​	Sport​	Pirelli Scorpion Zero AS​	33" (275/50R22)​	10/32"​	83 lb.​	5 - 10%​	Gen 1​

* The 20-inch wheel-set with 33-inch (275/60R20) Goodyear All-Season tires (provided on Gen 2

Dual Standard vehicles) is not currently listed on the Gear Page.​

** The 20-inch wheel-set with 33-inch (275/60R20) Pirelli All-Terrain tires (supposedly found

on some Gen 2 Max vehicles) is not currently listed on the Gear Page.​

Comments

• The absence of information on the Gear Page may be as telling as its presence. For example:
  • The 20-inch All-Season wheel-set (now found on Dual Standard vehicles) is not listed.
  • The 22-inch Range wheel-set is not (yet) listed.
• The Gen 1 21-inch Road wheel-set is apparently the range 'yardstick' by which other wheel-sets are evaluated.
• Compared to the 21-inch Road wheel-set, the All-Terrain wheels+tires reduce range by an estimated 10-15%.
• The 22-inch Sport wheel-set reduces range by an estimated 5-10%.
• It would be interesting to know how much range is affected by:
  • The 22-inch Range wheel-set.
  • Aero wheel covers on the 21-inch Road and 22-inch Range wheel-sets.
• The compatibility information is curious. Why, exactly, are the 21-inch and 22-inch wheel-sets incompatible with Gen 2 vehicles?
  • Gen 2 vehicle builds can still come with all three 22-inch (Sport and Range) wheel types? Same size wheels, afaik.
  • And even though 21-inch wheel-sets are no longer offered on new cars, they should still fit, shouldn't they?
  • Or have changes to, for example, brake calipers on Gen 2 vehicles caused a fit issue?

More on this as information becomes available.

 

[tps5352]

I attempted to summarize the current Rivian Gen 2 OEM wheel-tire options here. Additional confirmation (e.g., from new buyers of Dual Large-battery and Dual Max-battery vehicles) would be appreciated.

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