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R1T versus F150 Hybrid/Electric...

Ssaygmo

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Speaking of ‘real world’ range.

https://apple.news/AjlDep084QxiYMnU2Tz3Qnw

Hopefully Rivian is on the high side if 300 and not ‘Tesla like’.
Well its got 35kwh more than the model x and weights just a bit more, so I'm thinking real world we probably do see around 300 miles in moderate temps with steady state cruising at the speed limit.
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CommodoreAmiga

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Well its got 35kwh more than the model x and weights just a bit more, so I'm thinking real world we probably do see around 300 miles in moderate temps with steady state cruising at the speed limit.
Tesla has excellent aerodynamics. I doubt Rivian will perform as well, in that category.
 

DucRider

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skyote

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If it is "Taycan like" many people on (and off) the forum will be miffed.
If they come in "real world" at 300+, but EPA at 250 it won't go over well.
I think that's due to highway efficiency resulting from the 2 speed gearbox in the Taycan; we know the Rivian gearbos is single speed.
 

n8dgr8

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I’m back to considering the F150 Hybrid again.

-F150 Lightning doesn’t have enough range for me.
-Suspect R1T Max Pack delays are going to get longer and longer beyond my need date.

Anyone else reconsidering?
 

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sevengroove

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I don't know if anyone has seen this about the F150, but MKBHD just dropped his first impressions video and there's a really interesting tidbit about the range numbers. Apparently, the 300mile long range that Ford quoted includes a thousand pounds of payload. That's crazy! He does some math to extrapolate which may or may not be accurate, but it sounds like the Lightning will be capable of far more than 300 miles with a light cargo load.
 
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RobBot

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Just to note for people who aren't familiar with truck terminology, they said 1,000 lb payload, and payload includes passengers, so you could easily hit that payload with 5 (large) adults in the cab and nothing in the truck.

Real world numbers will likely be above what they're currently quoting though either way.
 

sevengroove

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Thanks for that clarification, updated my post too.
 

Amdolan

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F150 is reportedly at 300 mile range WITH 1000lb of cargo and thoughts are it could be closer to 400 miles without now...

https://electrek.co/2021/05/28/ford-f150-lightning-range-cargo/
400 miles may be possible, but would be fairly difficult to achieve as that’s sub 400 wh/mi for the 155kwh usable battery pack. I’ve seen numbers that say the Mach-e is around 300 wh/mi, I think model y is around 320 wh/mi, so the f-150 being under 400 wh/mi with the relatively poor aerodynamics compared to those vehicles would be impressive.
 

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ajdelange

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Speaking of ‘real world’ range.

https://apple.news/AjlDep084QxiYMnU2Tz3Qnw

Hopefully Rivian is on the high side if 300 and not ‘Tesla like’.
I went to the link and looked at the tabulated data. Edmunds was not able to produce the EPA estimated range with any of the Teslas yet in all cases, except the Performance S, they measured consumption less than the EPA estimates. How can this be?

Clearly there is more to this testing than you are assuming.

I am a sample size of one and have owned two Teslas. With each I realized better than EPA performance when driving it in a manner and under conditions which one would reasonably expect to give better than the EPA estimate and conversely.
 

kylealden

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400 miles may be possible, but would be fairly difficult to achieve as that’s sub 400 wh/mi for the 155kwh usable battery pack. I’ve seen numbers that say the Mach-e is around 300 wh/mi, I think model y is around 320 wh/mi, so the f-150 being under 400 wh/mi with the relatively poor aerodynamics compared to those vehicles would be impressive.
Model Y is around 260 wh/mi in good weather at freeway speeds (my average in Seattle on all-season tires; winter is closer to 320).

I'd be absolutely shocked if the F-150 was anywhere near 400 miles of range. Payload doesn't matter that much to EVs relative to drag - as others have noted, a Model Y with four passengers is pretty close to a 1000lb payload and you don't see anywhere near a 25% efficiency drop - but a rooftop box at 75mph will chop off 30% easily, and I've had a bike rack in the rain chop off close to 50%.

I'd wager that Ford's 300 is a lot more real than Tesla's 300, but don't expect miracles just because it includes some payload.
 

ajdelange

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I would encourage everyone who thinks changing the weight of the F150 by even as much as 1000 lbs is going to get them to 300 miles to go to ABRP, set up a trip in a Tesla or whatever you like and check the estimated consumption with no extra weight and with 1000 pounds extra weight.
 

ajdelange

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Payload doesn't matter that much to EVs relative to drag
Rolling resistance is directly proportional to drag. If you add 1000 pounds to a 5000 pound truck's load rolling resistance goes up 20%. If the rolling resistance load is 20% of the total load then total consumption is going up 4% and range down by a like amount.
 

n8dgr8

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The source of this information was a prototype truck. The battery could be oversized or the software might not have been tuned correctly. The dash may have provided an accurate range. The driving on the day of the event might not be realistic. Other than being tempted by the amazing frunk, I’m not convinced this is going to be better than a Tesla range of 350. Based on my Model S, if I am going to ditch the ICE, I really want 400+ Tesla equivalent range miles. Tesla can underperform and still be ok due to the SuperChargers.
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