SeaGeo

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I have an R1T with Max Pack reserved. My big concern isn't the range, but the reduction in payload capacity with the extra batteries. As with many trucks (F150, 1500, etc), people tend to run out of payload before reaching the towing weight limit (11,000 lbs. for the R1T). My Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited has a payload capacity of a little over 1000 lbs. I've been to the CAT scales and I'm good with my current travel trailer setup, but I'd like more margin and a longer wheelbase. I've considered getting a half ton gasser + a Tesla Model Y, but I'd rather get one vehicle that can tow and be an EV, thus the R1T. If the payload drops below 1000 lbs with the Max Pack, I think a lot of people in my situation will be out of luck for towing.
My hunch is they'll manage to keep the payload the same or very close to the same.
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SeaGeo

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A 1k elevation change? Gravity is a big range booster apparently:D
That's why I was checking things in ABRP. Seems like they're really averaging closer to 200 miles of range on average at about 65 mph.
 

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I have an R1T with Max Pack reserved. My big concern isn't the range, but the reduction in payload capacity with the extra batteries. As with many trucks (F150, 1500, etc), people tend to run out of payload before reaching the towing weight limit (11,000 lbs. for the R1T). My Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited has a payload capacity of a little over 1000 lbs. I've been to the CAT scales and I'm good with my current travel trailer setup, but I'd like more margin and a longer wheelbase. I've considered getting a half ton gasser + a Tesla Model Y, but I'd rather get one vehicle that can tow and be an EV, thus the R1T. If the payload drops below 1000 lbs with the Max Pack, I think a lot of people in my situation will be out of luck for towing.
I had for a long time a Max pack in my configuration, I’ve since switched to Large and will see if I change back once Rivian provides actual specs and timing on the Max Pack. Here’s my speculation on what Rivian may do with the Max pack and payload rating as I’ve asked Rivian on many occasions and they simple will not respond. So we know from MT, their LE with 21” tires and Off Road package weighted 7,150 lbs so subtracting from GVWR of 8,532 lbs from the manual gives a Payload of 1,382 lbs. How much does the Max pack add in weight? 600-700 lbs is my guess. If we add say 700 lbs + 7,150 = 7,850…let’s say the R1T Max structure can handle 1,500 lbs of payload in a modified Max pack build, to give a GVWR of 9,350 lbs putting it into a Class 2B. Any engineers care to weigh in on my guess work? My thought is, if they don’t move the GVWR up, and Max pack has a payload of >700 lbs is useless.
 

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Forgive the shitty photo, but towing a 2000 lbs trailer in my Bolt is comparable in the amount of energy expended per mile at highway speeds.
1638290652238.png

Keeping it 55 or under halves the power consumed.
I’ve messaged Gideon.? That is towing with the R1T cross country…he is traveling way to fast, sometimes at 80 mph and not going low enough SOC. Much of the time he pulls in at almost 30% SOC which in my opinion is way to high and thus he’s seeing slower/long changing times.
 

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I had for a long time a Max pack in my configuration, I’ve since switched to Large and will see if I change back once Rivian provides actual specs and timing on the Max Pack. Here’s my speculation on what Rivian may do with the Max pack and payload rating as I’ve asked Rivian on many occasions and they simple will not respond. So we know from MT, their LE with 21” tires and Off Road package weighted 7,150 lbs so subtracting from GVWR of 8,532 lbs from the manual gives a Payload of 1,382 lbs. How much does the Max pack add in weight? 600-700 lbs is my guess. If we add say 700 lbs + 7,150 = 7,850…let’s say the R1T Max structure can handle 1,500 lbs of payload in a modified Max pack build, to give a GVWR of 9,350 lbs putting it into a Class 2B. Any engineers care to weigh in on my guess work? My thought is, if they don’t move the GVWR up, and Max pack has a payload of >700 lbs is useless.
Didn’t a Rivian employee state that they needed to put the vehicles on a diet? I think you’ve hit on a critical issue they may have encountered with the max pack configuration. It never made sense to me why the max pack wasn’t prioritized ahead of large pack. What doesn’t add up is why the weight was originally under 6k and now is over 7k?
 

SeaGeo

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I’ve messaged Gideon.? That is towing with the R1T cross country…he is traveling way to fast, sometimes at 80 mph and not going low enough SOC. Much of the time he pulls in at almost 30% SOC which in my opinion is way to high and thus he’s seeing slower/long changing times.
They've stated that they're aware of their inefficiency with charging. They're still getting used to things and not wanting to go too deep into the pack to give themselves a buffer for now. At least until they are in areas where station spacing is a littlemore dense. Yesterday they worked down to 17%. They're new to EVs, especially towing, it's gonna take some time, and they obviously would rather play it a little safe.

Regarding speed, I'd argue their driving speed is totally fine. They're managing speed to hit the charging stations they want to hit at the SoC they want to hit.
 

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Didn’t a Rivian employee state that they needed to put the vehicles on a diet? I think you’ve hit on a critical issue they may have encountered with the max pack configuration. It never made sense to me why the max pack wasn’t prioritized ahead of large pack. What doesn’t add up is why the weight was originally under 6k and now is over 7k?
It does seem like the R1T is a very heavy vehicle….definitely built by engineers not bean counters. The body in white looks to have a lot of Aluminum for lite weight, but that skateboard looks really beefy. As a comparison though not same class, a Tesla Model S Plaid weights ~4,800 lbs with 100 kWh battery and 3 motors with more HP. 2,350 lbs less 😳.
 

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ent...ross-country/ar-AARjlBu?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

The first electric pickup trucks are finally arriving, and the ones we've driven so far--the 2022 GMC Hummer EV and 2022 Rivian R1T--are darned good. But as eye-opening as they've been, one aspect of their performance remains unknown: How well do they handle towing, especially over long distances? That answer, according to one new Rivian owner pulling a car across the country, is pretty well--provided you don't mind stopping to charge for hours every day.

Instagram user and Rivian employee @gideontherivian has been chronicling their trip in an R1T from Detroit to Los Angeles. Along the way, they've heavily relied on DC fast-chargers, often Electrify America stations at Walmart and Sam's Club. They've been towing their Ford Shelby Mustang GT on a twin-axle trailer, which coupled with the truck itself pushes the Rivian's gross vehicle weight to 14,260 pounds. Despite all that mass, the owner reports commendable performance from their truck, saying it's quiet, comfortable, highly resistant to trailer sway, and plenty powerful. It does everything anyone could want of a tow pig--save for traveling long distances without needing to stop.

The owner says they've been tracking range and efficiency along their drive, though they've avoided addressing any questions thereon, only commenting that they marginally increased efficiency by upping tire pressure to their maximum rating of 80 psi. Even so, we think we know what kind of range they're getting between charges, and it probably isn't what you've come to expect from a gas or diesel pickup.

Rivian told us when we drove a (marvelous) pre-production R1T to expect towing to drag down the truck's estimated 314-mile range by 20 to 40 percent. According to the automaker, a trailer's weight is less consequential than its aerodynamic drag. As the owner says they're not charging far past 80 percent to hasten recharges (which slow above that mark) and preserve the battery, and taking it no lower than a 16 percent charge, that means they're using no more than 64 percent of its charge. Multiply those decimals together and they suggest the R1T with a trailer in tow is sustaining 121 to 161 miles per 64-percent charge. Maximum range with that trailer, then, would appear to top out between 188 and 251 miles.

The length of recharges varies widely, too, depending on the condition and layout of the charging station. Some chargers have been straightforward to access with a trailer, with stalls that can be pulled through, while others have required partially blocking traffic past or even unhooking the trailer entirely. Complicating things, not all chargers have worked as intended; some don't put out anywhere near peak wattage, while a fair number of them are out of order. We and our sister site Car Bibles encountered similar problems while testing the Polestar 2.

"On average, we find about one of four chargers at a station is non-functional," said @gideontherivian in an Instagram comment.

Even so, they report averaging 350 miles a day on their trip and traveling as far as 502 miles, though not by running the battery low. Instead, they're stopping every 80 to 100 miles for shorter charges, stating they "increased our [sic] miles per charging time by over 20 percent by driving shorter legs and charging more often."

Still, this long-haul capability isn't in the same league as that offered by internal combustion-engined trucks, which while less refined and more expensive to refuel don't need nearly as long to get back on the road. And if you're the kind of person that can afford a $70,000 pickup truck, it's probably not money that's tight, but time.
 

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TFLTruck guys did a discussion about this. I thought it was going to be another whining session but they did a good analysis on EV towing and how the charging infrastructure is for towing,

 

SeaGeo

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TFLTruck guys did a discussion about this. I thought it was going to be another whining session but they did a good analysis on EV towing and how the charging infrastructure is for towing,

Just worth pointing out, their analysis has some wrong assumptions based on what the owners were sharing. They generally stuck between 30 and 90% SoC. At the end of their trip they did a couple of ~16% to 80% stops from what they shared, so I suspect Andre and the wife miscommunicated a bit.

I'm a little surprised they don't yet realize our charging curves work yet. I've yet to see a car thst doesn't charge fast below 15%.

Edit: just watched more of their video, and their understanding of charging speeds and time is just really frustrating. They should know better.
 
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rraj2k81

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Just worth pointing out, their analysis has some wrong assumptions based on what the owners were sharing. They generally stuck between 30 and 90% SoC. At the end of their trip they did a couple of ~16% to 80% stops from what they shared, so I suspect Andre and the wife miscommunicated a bit.

I'm a little surprised they don't yet realize our charging curves work yet. I've yet to see a car thst doesn't charge fast below 15%.

Edit: just watched more of their video, and their understanding of charging speeds and time is just really frustrating. They should know better.
They were basing their analysis on the information they got from the wife and the whatever information they posted on social media while doing the trip. So wouldn’t be surprised if certain data was withheld or missed.

But what I am gathering from this road is that, on average the R1T needs about 80kwh to do 100 miles towing about 6000 lbs.

But this is based on a single road trip, so we will have to wait for more information. I will be glad when these things land in the hands of non-employees who can start sharing more raw and real life data without any apprehension.
 

SeaGeo

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They were basing their analysis on the information they got from the wife and the whatever information they posted on social media while doing the trip. So wouldn’t be surprised if certain data was withheld or missed.

But what I am gathering from this road is that, on average the R1T needs about 80kwh to do 100 miles towing about 6000 lbs.

But this is based on a single road trip, so we will have to wait for more information. I will be glad when these things land in the hands of non-employees who can start sharing more raw and real life data without any apprehension.
The owners have stated they were sitting between 30 and 90% for much of the trip. I think they just miscommunicated about discharge from a specific leg vs what they were doing in general (hence the specific 16% number). that's understandable, though annoying. But the 100 miles is just charger spacing.

But the part the bothered me was their general lack of understanding about charging in general. They should know better at this point. Plugging in below 15% isn't low, it's not particularly bad for the battery. So they end up (accidentally) misrepresenting their range and what reasonable charging times should be (you should absolutely not be at chargers for an hour to go 15 to 80% in general).
 

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The owners have stated they were sitting between 30 and 90% for much of the trip. I think they just miscommunicated about discharge from a specific leg vs what they were doing in general (hence the specific 16% number). that's understandable, though annoying. But the 100 miles is just charger spacing.

But the part the bothered me was their general lack of understanding about charging in general. They should know better at this point. Plugging in below 15% isn't low, it's not particularly bad for the battery. So they end up (accidentally) misrepresenting their range and what reasonable charging times should be (you should absolutely not be at chargers for an hour to go 15 to 80% in general).
Ah, good point about charger spacing.

Yeah 15% is by no means low, but I would imagine, when you are towing, a 15% SOC could be cause for concern, especially if the range drops off at a steeper rate at a low SOC. The i-Pace has shown to have a very steep SOC drop off once it hits 10%.

I am personally not too concerned about towing as I am not planning on towing, so towing range is not something I am worried about.

At the end of the day, until we start to see some real charging curves from non-employee owners and EV centric reviews, all of this would be just random data points. Hopefully, we can see these data starting in Spring of 2022.
 

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Gideon the Rivian is towing a mustang on an open trailer. They posted this screenshot of the night time view. You can see 44 miles of predicted range with 37% battery remaining! They are going 73 mph in this pic. Their set up is 14,260 lbs in total (includes the truck).It will take a patient person to tow anything substantial over long distances.

361B1BF8-442E-4E4E-A189-878F219A3A32.jpeg
That trailer with what looks like a large tool box up front then a large gap then the Mustang. Must create a ton of air turbulence and drag
 

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They were basing their analysis on the information they got from the wife and the whatever information they posted on social media while doing the trip. So wouldn’t be surprised if certain data was withheld or missed.

But what I am gathering from this road is that, on average the R1T needs about 80kwh to do 100 miles towing about 6000 lbs.

But this is based on a single road trip, so we will have to wait for more information. I will be glad when these things land in the hands of non-employees who can start sharing more raw and real life data without any apprehension.
I messaged this couple several times on their journey. The guys at TLF missed or at least didn't share several points I observed that may have helped this couple. I think at the beginning of their journey they did not realize the impact of the charging curve and how much it tapers as you get into it. Early in their trip, they were stopping at around 30% and then charging to 80% or more. I and others were suggesting if it would fit their travel plans to get lower into SOC as DCFC could add more miles faster. Another major factor was many times they noted their speed of 75-80 mph, which is a major blow to the range and overall travel time. A third factor, it seemed they were using multiple apps to find charging stations and possibly not using Rivian software sometimes? If that is true, I would doubt the R1T would be preparing the battery pack in anticipation of charging which may also lead to extended charging times.
 
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