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R1T spinning out on Donner pass

tcole

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Can you share some more insight into your winter driving and winter tires experience?
I have Pirelli Sottozero 3 winters on my Tesla MYP. While I have not taken any long winter trips, at least locally, those tires seem to handle quite well in snow. Not good for ice?
What about studded tires, have you tried them? How do they handle in snow?
My old ICE SUV, which I use only in winter here, has Nokian, well, Nordman studded tires. It does very well in ICE. Seem fine in snow also. Looking at what winters there might be out there for my Rivian 21s. Thank you.
I had the Sottozero 3 on a Volvo V60 a few years back and I was pretty unimpressed with them for actual snow performance. They were quite good for dry pavement though. I think their design compromises were a bit more on the side of dry performance on the way to the mountain, vs actual performance In the snow.

I've had a much better experience with Blizzaks and Nokian. Though Blizzaks tend to be quite good for the first half of the tire life, and then snow performance gets a lot worse. I've also heard good things about Ice-X but haven't tried them yet.

I have had at least one scary situation with Blizzaks on nice in an old Subaru Outback, I was coming down a hill that I realized was nearly a sheet of ice. Just tapping the brakes I had all 4 wheels lock up on me and I could feel the backend start to come around a little. I let off the brakes and downshifted to do engine braking instead, and I was fine.

Maybe studs would have helped in that situation, but I don't ever run studded tires because around Tahoe you're driving with your winter tires on from November to May, and lot of the times the roads are just bare. But sometimes they are packed snow, or deep loose snow. Usually not ice.

As for winters for your 21" rims, I'm not sure there are any. You only really have 2 tire choices.

See here:

link to the above spreadsheet.
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tcole

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The software in these trucks can help them compensate for a variety of situations however, they can NOT compensate for the laws of physics with a 7400lb vehicle and an IDIOT w/AWD who feels entitled on icy roads. Dedicated winter tires only help the truck compensate. I've driven for lots of years in the Sierra's at 7000+ feet and the road conditions can and do change quickly. The best defense is to slow down as if you have too much speed going into that corner and those 7400lbs start to slide...whelp...physics takes over.

CHP/CalTrans does have chain controls on these roads however, I've seen them flag through Escalades with 22" summer tires on them...so it's hit or miss.
Yep, I've seen plenty of big 4x4 trucks in the ditch, upside down, etc, because they were taking corners too fast.

Tires do help a lot. But they can only overcome so much speed, and not much really.
 

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Can you share some more insight into your winter driving and winter tires experience?
I have Pirelli Sottozero 3 winters on my Tesla MYP. While I have not taken any long winter trips, at least locally, those tires seem to handle quite well in snow. Not good for ice?
What about studded tires, have you tried them? How do they handle in snow?
My old ICE SUV, which I use only in winter here, has Nokian, well, Nordman studded tires. It does very well in ICE. Seem fine in snow also. Looking at what winters there might be out there for my Rivian 21s. Thank you.
I'm speaking to the 20" Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts. They are technically rated as 3PMS, but from my experience they have always been less-than-stellar in all winter conditions (ice, packed snow, deep snow).

I used to run Falken Wildpeak AT3w's on my Land Cruiser and 4Runner, and they were miles better. I considered the AT4w for the Rivian this winter, but reviews point to a reduction in winter performance. Ended up going with the BFG KO3's, and they are already much, much better than the Pirelli's have been, even when they were new.
 

R1TandMe

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Hey buddy, it's a bed cap. A lot of people comment that so you aren't the only one. No worries.
Yea should have had my glasses on 😀
 

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Snow socks are approved by Caltrans. I've heard that traction is comparable to chains, but I have no experience nor have I really looked into it. I've been driving over the pass into Tahoe for years. I've used chains on occasion with different vehicles. In my personal experience using dedicated snow tires, I've not found any additional benefit using chains. This is my second season going to Tahoe with my R1S with 20AT wheels. Traction is okay but considerably worse than with my 2008 Volvo XC90 with snow tires. I was hoping to avoid getting a second set of wheels, but after sliding on some black ice after Christmas, I will probably end up getting snows.

https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/documents/chainrequire-a11y.pdf
That is correct (snow socks). Also tests with snow socks show them to be superior than ANY other setup (including snow tires) on ice. On any other surface, YMMV and you tear them up.

To make sure we give 20 AT a fair shake down: did you properly lower the air pressure in them?
 

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bigsky

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I had the Sottozero 3 on a Volvo V60 a few years back and I was pretty unimpressed with them for actual snow performance. They were quite good for dry pavement though. I think their design compromises were a bit more on the side of dry performance on the way to the mountain, vs actual performance In the snow.

I've had a much better experience with Blizzaks and Nokian. Though Blizzaks tend to be quite good for the first half of the tire life, and then snow performance gets a lot worse. I've also heard good things about Ice-X but haven't tried them yet.

I have had at least one scary situation with Blizzaks on nice in an old Subaru Outback, I was coming down a hill that I realized was nearly a sheet of ice. Just tapping the brakes I had all 4 wheels lock up on me and I could feel the backend start to come around a little. I let off the brakes and downshifted to do engine braking instead, and I was fine.

Maybe studs would have helped in that situation, but I don't ever run studded tires because around Tahoe you're driving with your winter tires on from November to May, and lot of the times the roads are just bare. But sometimes they are packed snow, or deep loose snow. Usually not ice.

As for winters for your 21" rims, I'm not sure there are any. You only really have 2 tire choices.

See here:

link to the above spreadsheet.
Thank you for the information. I will save this.
I ended up with the Sottozeros on my MYP only because I just could not find Nokians at the time. I recall the factory in Russia had shut down or something to that effect.
Nokian seems to be the preferred choice for winter tires. Perhaps there may be such a choice for my R1S on 21"s later on, maybe a year or two. If not, perhaps ditch the 21" wheels an go 22s.. Do 20s not look too small on Rivians?
For now, I still have my 2004 4Runner V8, which is basically still bulletproof. It's been gathering dust in my garage for quite some time, but great for the winter punishment on cars around here. I did get the Nokian's lower budget version Nordman studded tires ( same situation with not finding Nokians at the time.) They seem to do very welll in snow and ICE. Hope to take first long trip in them this winter. Moved to the real cold and winter. Going on two years. Learning about winter driving and tires.

Again, appreciate the info. Oh, will definitely look at the tire socks now, at least for my MY.
 

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Would love to see the drivecam footage of that. Probably nausea-inducing. 🤮😆
For sure, and I bet they have it. Every time I do a launch or something, Rivian seems to think it is an incident, and starts the recording, whether or not you have the drivecam recording all the time on.
 

Tahoeblue

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Snow socks are approved by Caltrans. I've heard that traction is comparable to chains, but I have no experience nor have I really looked into it. I've been driving over the pass into Tahoe for years. I've used chains on occasion with different vehicles. In my personal experience using dedicated snow tires, I've not found any additional benefit using chains. This is my second season going to Tahoe with my R1S with 20AT wheels. Traction is okay but considerably worse than with my 2008 Volvo XC90 with snow tires. I was hoping to avoid getting a second set of wheels, but after sliding on some black ice after Christmas, I will probably end up getting snows.

https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/documents/chainrequire-a11y.pdf
The video does an interesting job of comparing all seasons, winter tires, chains and snow socks and measuring the results



You do need to take into consideration the snow pack this test is on vs. more common situations. In Tahoe, you can go from snow pack like this in a neighborhood to a mildly slushy main road and then back again all in the same drive…
 

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We're getting snow/ice in Atlanta area tomorrow. It's going to be like Ringling Bros Circus when 0.5" starts to stick, remember to set your DVR's.

Neighbor told me we'll be snowed in and I responded he'll be snowed in....hysterical.
 

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That is correct (snow socks). Also tests with snow socks show them to be superior than ANY other setup (including snow tires) on ice. On any other surface, YMMV and you tear them up.

To make sure we give 20 AT a fair shake down: did you properly lower the air pressure in them?
No, I didn't even think about lowering the pressure until I had that skid and had thought about it once I got home. What do you recommend, mid 30's? When the interstates are dry, I drive on the faster side, so I'm not sure how low to go. When my family wasn't in the car, I drove around and did some swerving, panic breaking, etc when no traffic was anywhere visible. Seemed to have good traction in regular show, regardless of depth. But when the road was slick ice with a light dusting of snow, traction was not confidence inspiring. We had light snow and warm weather with that dropped below freezing in the evening, so that's about the slickest I have seen the roads up there in a long time. On another note, it was nice to see four out of the six chargers at Kirkwood filled with Rivians. Unfortunately, they are 6kW!
Rivian R1T R1S R1T spinning out on Donner pass IMG_1006
 

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This R1T was probably driving too fast, and likely the stock ATs, which I doubt are great in the snow.


Everyone wants to think their vehicle capabilities make all the difference in the snow. That way you can brag about your vehicle being better than someone else's.



But it really comes down to tires and not driving too fast for conditions.



After winter tires and driving slow then you have AWD/4X4 and ground clearance.


Around Tahoe I do see a lot of low clearance vehicles stuck in a Safeway parking lot in town.

In front of my house I have a slight hill, and I see all kinds of things not make it up that hill. 4x4 F350s, Cars, SUVs, whatever. The common denominator is the wrong tires for the conditions and then driving too fast. (Though the UPS driver is pretty good at getting up by getting a running start, so speed can help going uphill, as long as you don't have to turn!)



I was late putting my winter ties on my R1T this year, and had to drive to the tire shop on the stock 22" Pirelli all-seasons and they only had about 5/32nds left on them. There was a bit of snow on the ground and I couldn't get up that same hill in front of my house. It's never been an issue in any amount of snow with my winter tires on (Nokian Hakka R5).


We also have a Bronco and just keep that with the stick AT tires, it slide about a foot when I backed out of the driveway yesterday. I certainly have to take it a lot easier with the Bronco because of those tires. They are OK, but not great at all.
I agree. For me, it's the snow tires that matter. I have been driving "one wheel drive" 1980's VW Vanagons since 1999. Did about 10 winters in NY before moving to CA. Always used snow tires and can't think of a single time I lost traction or got stuck.
 

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No, I didn't even think about lowering the pressure until I had that skid and had thought about it once I got home. What do you recommend, mid 30's? When the interstates are dry, I drive on the faster side, so I'm not sure how low to go. When my family wasn't in the car, I drove around and did some swerving, panic breaking, etc when no traffic was anywhere visible. Seemed to have good traction in regular show, regardless of depth. But when the road was slick ice with a light dusting of snow, traction was not confidence inspiring. We had light snow and warm weather with that dropped below freezing in the evening, so that's about the slickest I have seen the roads up there in a long time. On another note, it was nice to see four out of the six chargers at Kirkwood filled with Rivians. Unfortunately, they are 6kW!
IMG_1006.jpeg
I think mid 30s (that's the pressure I set in sand) would be OK while you are in snow and going under 15 mph. But once you get past the deep/hazardous snow and are going over 15 mph, mid 30s is too low. Handling will suck, efficiency will go through the floor, and you could potentially damage the tires due to excessive high speed flexing.
 

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I am old..I did 3 360's in a VW Bug next to the drop off just a ways in front of that Rivian back in the early 70's. Ended up pointing the way I was traveling..east..changed my driving habits.
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