R1T First Impressions and Comparisons Coming From a Tesla Model Y

[jjwolf120]

It's unacceptable that Rivian doesn't have lane-centering on city streets.

No, it isn't. You have to accept that as a new company, they need some time to develop the software.

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[kizamybute']

Pretty Spot Review.

I am coming from a 2019 Model S, having previously had a Model 3, yes, there is no comparison in terms of quality between the Model 3 and Model S. Rivian stacks up comparably in terms of quality to the Model S/X platform.

Model 3/Y suspension is very stiff. One of the many reasons I only kept it for 2 months before going back to a Model S. Rivian's air suspension is quite advanced and nearly on par with the Model S/X.

I agree about FSD Beta. Scared the crap out of me most of the time and hardly used it. Tesla's basic AP on the freeway is still superior to Rivian's Driver+ as you do have to constantly disengage it. Hoping someday they will allow a mode that is just a simple lane keep assist based on the lines it sees rather than only usable on mapped roads. If they do that, then it will be basically just as useful as Tesla's basic AP was, which was primarily all I used it for.

I will miss the "summon" feature of the Tesla. Was a nice feature for pulling it out of the garage or tight parking places.

Tesla's UI is FAR more advanced, but 90% of it was stuff I didn't use, so not really missing anything.

Tesla's Navigation however, is far superior and I do notice that on a daily basis. Plus, Tesla finally added waypoints. I waited 8 years, finally got them, only to sell the car 4 months later and back to a car without them!! I do miss those, being that I use my vehicle for work.

Having a usable Frunk is wonderful. Tesla's was useless. Not only because it was small, but because you had to be so careful closing it, hands in the right spot to avoid bending the hood. Never used it. I use the Rivian's frunk as much as I did the truck in the Tesla.

Touching on OP's notes. I do wish Rivian had an option for running boards or tubular step bars due to the height. Going to wear out the edge of these seats pretty quickly the way it is. Hoping some aftermarket company comes up with something soon. Would prefer than over a "kneel mode". I'm just not a fan of over-using the air suspension. Feel like having it raise and lower each time I get in or out would just wear it out sooner than necessary. Maybe just paranoia.

I too will miss the simplicity of the Supercharger network. Not to mention, I had free supercharging. Fortunately, I don't do much long distance travel, so won't be an issue too often.

And I do agree, not related to the Tesla, but no clue what Rivian was thinking in not putting some type of handle on the tail gate. Very awkward closing that thing with the top edge being slanted, the opposite direction you need to be able to grab it. Have to basically get hands underneath it and push it up as there's nothing there to pull it up. And, requires hands all over the painted surface. One of the reasons I ultimately chose White instead of my preferred darker colors. Nowhere really to put a handle on the gear tunnel doors, but they too require hands on the paint to close. Rivian was supposed to include an auto up/down tail gate like the Ford, but dropped it from production. Wish they wouldn't have. Same can be said of the gear tunnel doors. Would have been nice if they were powered too.

Many have complained about Rivian's cameras. I stated it long ago and maybe it's just me. But, while the camera quality is not nearly as sharp as the Tesla or other cars, it's not something I ever notice. I'm not using them to watch movies or whatever. Simply to see where I'm going. The fully serve their purpose in allowing me to back up with views of what's behind me. Haven't once thought about the camera / image quality being an issue. Works just fine.

 

[EA287]

Have to agree with the review. We have a Model Y performance which we plan on keeping. It's a great car but Tesla has always been cheap on the materials. Technology wise Tesla is obviously more superior but I'm really surprised at how well the R1T is put together and the quality of materials. We'll see if any problems arise but I'm really enjoying the Rivian.

 

[Tbrou16]

Pretty Spot Review.

I am coming from a 2019 Model S, having previously had a Model 3, yes, there is no comparison in terms of quality between the Model 3 and Model S. Rivian stacks up comparably in terms of quality to the Model S/X platform.

Model 3/Y suspension is very stiff. One of the many reasons I only kept it for 2 months before going back to a Model S. Rivian's air suspension is quite advanced and nearly on par with the Model S/X.

I agree about FSD Beta. Scared the crap out of me most of the time and hardly used it. Tesla's basic AP on the freeway is still superior to Rivian's Driver+ as you do have to constantly disengage it. Hoping someday they will allow a mode that is just a simple lane keep assist based on the lines it sees rather than only usable on mapped roads. If they do that, then it will be basically just as useful as Tesla's basic AP was, which was primarily all I used it for.

I will miss the "summon" feature of the Tesla. Was a nice feature for pulling it out of the garage or tight parking places.

Tesla's UI is FAR more advanced, but 90% of it was stuff I didn't use, so not really missing anything.

Tesla's Navigation however, is far superior and I do notice that on a daily basis. Plus, Tesla finally added waypoints. I waited 8 years, finally got them, only to sell the car 4 months later and back to a car without them!! I do miss those, being that I use my vehicle for work.

Having a usable Frunk is wonderful. Tesla's was useless. Not only because it was small, but because you had to be so careful closing it, hands in the right spot to avoid bending the hood. Never used it. I use the Rivian's frunk as much as I did the truck in the Tesla.

Touching on OP's notes. I do wish Rivian had an option for running boards or tubular step bars due to the height. Going to wear out the edge of these seats pretty quickly the way it is. Hoping some aftermarket company comes up with something soon. Would prefer than over a "kneel mode". I'm just not a fan of over-using the air suspension. Feel like having it raise and lower each time I get in or out would just wear it out sooner than necessary. Maybe just paranoia.

I too will miss the simplicity of the Supercharger network. Not to mention, I had free supercharging. Fortunately, I don't do much long distance travel, so won't be an issue too often.

And I do agree, not related to the Tesla, but no clue what Rivian was thinking in not putting some type of handle on the tail gate. Very awkward closing that thing with the top edge being slanted, the opposite direction you need to be able to grab it. Have to basically get hands underneath it and push it up as there's nothing there to pull it up. And, requires hands all over the painted surface. One of the reasons I ultimately chose White instead of my preferred darker colors. Nowhere really to put a handle on the gear tunnel doors, but they too require hands on the paint to close. Rivian was supposed to include an auto up/down tail gate like the Ford, but dropped it from production. Wish they wouldn't have. Same can be said of the gear tunnel doors. Would have been nice if they were powered too.

Many have complained about Rivian's cameras. I stated it long ago and maybe it's just me. But, while the camera quality is not nearly as sharp as the Tesla or other cars, it's not something I ever notice. I'm not using them to watch movies or whatever. Simply to see where I'm going. The fully serve their purpose in allowing me to back up with views of what's behind me. Haven't once thought about the camera / image quality being an issue. Works just fine.

To add to your point about the camera, I would gladly sacrifice camera resolution if it means having a top-down 360 degree view like the Rivian does

 

[kylealden]

The only useful feature I have is the "ding" when the light turns green. Rivian will never have that.

I wouldn’t be so definitive. They have the necessary hardware and haven’t been shy about poaching ideas from Tesla. I could see it happening.

 

[Gsxr150]

I wouldn’t be so definitive. They have the necessary hardware and haven’t been shy about poaching ideas from Tesla. I could see it happening.

Perhaps...I just bet that Tesla has thousands of hours into just that simple feature. And....you have to pay thousands of dollars to get it.

 

[kylealden]

Perhaps...I just bet that Tesla has thousands of hours into just that simple feature. And....you have to pay thousands of dollars to get it.

You can't really cleanly separate it out like that. This is a feature enabled by the fact that Tesla has a pretty robust scene understanding through their FSD model (it can recognize a stop sign, an lane, an intersection, a car, a pedestrian, etc.). Tesla didn't manually program in "stop light," they trained their ML model over time by labelling data.

Rivian's model clearly has a lot of overlap (and a lot of the same people involved...) - the center display already shows cars, lanes, pedestrians, etc. We don't know how much other scene understanding they've developed, but we do know that for years they planned on general purpose autonomy, so they were certainly thinking about things like intersections and stoplights. We also know that they have things like attention monitoring based on driver gaze which is a pretty challenging problem compared to "is that light green yet?".

I don't think we'll ever see Rivian try to do city self-driving, or anything more sophisticated than highway lane-keeping and maybe lane changes. I'm personally totally satisfied with that. But annotating stoplights and flagging a change from red to green is actually pretty trivial relative to other challenges like arbitrary lane keeping, especially because it's not life and death - just an optional driver awareness feature. The question is not whether they can do it, it's whether they care and what their software backlog is like. I certainly would be surprised if it's not more than a year away.

I guess we should have asked on the AMA thread

 

[Gsxr150]

You can't really cleanly separate it out like that. This is a feature enabled by the fact that Tesla has a pretty robust scene understanding through their FSD model (it can recognize a stop sign, an lane, an intersection, a car, a pedestrian, etc.). Tesla didn't manually program in "stop light," they trained their ML model over time by labelling data.

Rivian's model clearly has a lot of overlap (and a lot of the same people involved...) - the center display already shows cars, lanes, pedestrians, etc. We don't know how much other scene understanding they've developed, but we do know that for years they planned on general purpose autonomy, so they were certainly thinking about things like intersections and stoplights. We also know that they have things like attention monitoring based on driver gaze which is a pretty challenging problem compared to "is that light green yet?".

I don't think we'll ever see Rivian try to do city self-driving, or anything more sophisticated than highway lane-keeping and maybe lane changes. I'm personally totally satisfied with that. But annotating stoplights and flagging a change from red to green is actually pretty trivial relative to other challenges like arbitrary lane keeping, especially because it's not life and death - just an optional driver awareness feature. The question is not whether they can do it, it's whether they care and what their software backlog is like. I certainly would be surprised if it's not more than a year away.

I guess we should have asked on the AMA thread

Good analysis! I do love the feature and use it ALL the time. Allows me to watch cars in the intersections much better, rather than being hyper-focused on a light turning green. I'd love to see Rivian add it, but not holding my breath.

 

[Tonicart]

I am really surprised that more people haven’t complained about a spot to lift the tailgate that wont scratch paint. It is the primary reason I am getting it covered in PPF.

I thought about applying PPF there, but I just push carefully at the black plastic strip at the top of the tailgate. PPF would be more foolproof though.

 

[mini2nut]

Great observations and feedback.

As a Model Y DM owner I can agree on a lot of your comments. My favorite features are the size factor, handling, acceleration, constant over the air updates, one pedal driving, minimalist interior and the AMAZING software. It’s top notch and a pleasure to use. For example, it recognizes roughly 100 voice commands.

The bad? It’s hands down body panel fit and finish. As you stated some panels can‘t be perfectly aligned. For example, If you adjust the door striker plate to have the window moulding align perfectly the front and rear door edges are now misaligned.

I recently backed into a fixed object and needed to have body shop repairs. When I picked up the vehicle after the repairs I got into a lengthy conversation with the manager. He went to the Fremont factory to be certified in Tesla body repairs.

He mentioned that many body panels can’t be aligned “Porsche perfect” because the body stampings coming out of dies aren‘t perfect. He also heard a rumor that Tesla employs some ex convicts on the assembly line. The average hourly rate at Tesla is $23 an hour. The hourly rates range from $17 to $34 an hour. QC at the end of the assembly line is minimal. Service centers are stuck with that task.

He claimed that the door hinges are sometimes struck with a mallet to get the doors into alignment. You can actually see some black rubber mallet marks on Tesla hinges if inspected closely.

 

[mini2nut]

Great observations and feedback.

As a Model Y DM owner I can agree on a lot of your comments. My favorite features are the size factor, handling, acceleration, constant over the air updates, one pedal driving, minimalist interior and the AMAZING software. It’s top notch and a pleasure to use. For example, it recognizes roughly 100 voice commands.

The bad? It’s hands down body panel fit and finish. As you stated some panels can‘t be perfectly aligned. For example, If you adjust the door striker plate to have the window moulding line perfectly the front and rear door edges are now misaligned.

I recently backed into a fixed object and needed to have body shop repairs. When I picked up the vehicle after the repairs I got into a lengthy conversation with the manager. He went to the Fremont factory to be certified in Tesla body repairs.

He mentioned that many body panels can’t be aligned “Porsche perfect” because the body stampings coming out of dies aren‘t perfect. He also heard a rumor that Tesla employs some ex convicts on the assembly line. The average hourly rate at Tesla is $23 an hour.

He claimed that the door hinges are banged on with a mallet to get the doors into alignment. You can actually see some black rubber mallet marks on Tesla hinges if inspected them closely.

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