R1T $7500 Tax Return with binding purchase agreement/2022 Amended Tax Return

[Tanuki68]

Morphine,

As I posted above on 9/25, I strongly suggest that you communicate to the IRS that you are filing in accordance with Internal Revenue Bulletin No. 2023-16, page 749, which describes section 13401(l) of the Inflation Reduction Act, otherwise known as the Transition Rule.

You may ask: Why should I refer to a 100+ page bulletin when I could just quote something from an IRS website of IRS form? I learned a few things during my EV credit adventure with an IRS agent. In the eyes of the IRS, "forms, instructions, publications and IRS.gov webpages" are considered "informal guidance." Also, "FAQs generally cannot be relied upon ..." "Only guidance that is published in the Bulletin has precedential value."

You can read more about how the Bulletin trumps (lowercase t) all other IRS publications at this IRS website.

Bottom line, in your dealings with the IRS, don't mess around with quoting IRS forms, instructions, or online FAQs. Keep it simple and cite the Transition Rule as documented in Internal Revenue Bulletin No. 2023-16.

I hope this helps.

David

David,
thank you X 8429.64 times! I followed your guidance to the T and submitted my amended return using TurboTax 6 weeks ago. Could hardly believe the check was in my mailbox today. $8429.64. after reading all the thread I had already assumed this was going to be an ugly or at least a very very lengthy process before I received any checks back at all. the fact that we would not qualify under several of the new terms (income, MSRP of R1T, model year etc etc etc) meant that there were so many easy Ways for the IRS to reject, reduce or dispute my claim means that the information I fed to them on my 1040X was clear and concise to the point they just approved and cut me the check. Very very much appreciated! Hopefully I can give back to the brain trust that these forums are in the future.

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[jjrivian]

David,
thank you X 8429.64 times! I followed your guidance to the T and submitted my amended return using TurboTax 6 weeks ago. Could hardly believe the check was in my mailbox today. $8429.64. after reading all the thread I had already assumed this was going to be an ugly or at least a very very lengthy process before I received any checks back at all. the fact that we would not qualify under several of the new terms (income, MSRP of R1T, model year etc etc etc) meant that there were so many easy Ways for the IRS to reject, reduce or dispute my claim means that the information I fed to them on my 1040X was clear and concise to the point they just approved and cut me the check. Very very much appreciated! Hopefully I can give back to the brain trust that these forums are in the future.

Wow six weeks! You are giving me a lot of hope after doing it with Turbotax.

 

[jotam]

Morphine,

As I posted above on 9/25, I strongly suggest that you communicate to the IRS that you are filing in accordance with Internal Revenue Bulletin No. 2023-16, page 749, which describes section 13401(l) of the Inflation Reduction Act, otherwise known as the Transition Rule.

You may ask: Why should I refer to a 100+ page bulletin when I could just quote something from an IRS website of IRS form? I learned a few things during my EV credit adventure with an IRS agent. In the eyes of the IRS, "forms, instructions, publications and IRS.gov webpages" are considered "informal guidance." Also, "FAQs generally cannot be relied upon ..." "Only guidance that is published in the Bulletin has precedential value."

You can read more about how the Bulletin trumps (lowercase t) all other IRS publications at this IRS website.

Bottom line, in your dealings with the IRS, don't mess around with quoting IRS forms, instructions, or online FAQs. Keep it simple and cite the Transition Rule as documented in Internal Revenue Bulletin No. 2023-16.

I hope this helps.

David

I would like to know what other documents you attached with the tax amendment besides the binding agreement we signed with Rivian. Should I also attach the purchase agreement? Will it create confusion with the place in service date on 8936? Thanks

 

[Tanuki68]

I would not send them any of the buying details whatsoever. Just fill out the proper form, use the text David provided, print and sign the binding agreement copy, I did find the irs exact document and page and highlighted it to save the agent time.

 

[Mygrain]

I would like to know what other documents you attached with the tax amendment besides the binding agreement we signed with Rivian. Should I also attach the purchase agreement? Will it create confusion with the place in service date on 8936? Thanks

I did not attach any documents to my 1040X. To keep it simple, I wrote in the Explanation of Changes that I had entered into a written binding contract to buy a new Rivian EV on August 10, 2022, but didn't take delivery until Dec. 6, 2023. I naively assumed that everyone at the IRS was familiar with the Transition Rule. Big mistake.

Six months after mailing my 1040X, I got a letter from the IRS that said I had to claim the EV credit in the tax year that the vehicle was delivered. Letter also said, "If you do not agree, please provide a legal citation or IRS publication that allows the credit in the year the contract was entered into."

I sent a letter that cited 5 different IRS websites, FAQs, and instructions. After further research, I learned that the Internal Revenue Bulletin takes precedence over all the documents I cited. Hence, my advice is to simply cite the Bulletin. I never sent the IRS a copy of my signed contract (they didn't ask for it). And I never sent the IRS a copy of Rivian's mass email (Rivian can say anything they want, right?).

When I finally got to talk (on the phone) to the IRS agent who was handling my case, he was very congenial and readily admitted that he had been unaware of the obscure Transition Rule buried in the Inflation Reduction Act.

 

[shipdriver]

My extreme gratitude to all of the contributors to this thread thus far! It has been very informative and useful.

I'm afraid I may have encountered a twist I don't recall being mentioned previously about those of us in the transition rule universe - Clean Vehicle Seller Report being submitted by Rivian (or not).

Background:
"binding agreement" 8/11/2022, delivery 4/4/2024
2022 1040-X submitted on 8/8/2024, IRS responded on 9/4/2024 that adjustments were made but no credit was issued
I was able to speak to a very helpful IRS professional today along with my tax preparer. After her efforts we were informed that she "could not find my VIN on their system" and that this "may" be the hang up. She was not able to ascertain the exact reason the originally submitted 1040-X resulted in no credit because that reviewer left no notes.
The ball (buck?) is back in my court apparently wrt having Rivian notify the IRS about sale/delivery.
I recall the request from Jim Bomar this past April after delivery to sign the Clean Vehicle Seller Report. Still have the email, but, of course, the link has expired. I did not think that I needed to complete this form being from the IRA implementation apart from the transition rule portion and requirements.

Has anyone who is in the transition rule universe like me received the credit of $7500 and NOT completed the Clean Vehicle Seller Report? Particularly with a 2024 delivery. Or dealt with a similar issue?

Does anyone have any specific information wrt this report and it's applicability under the transition rule?

Thanks

 

[Mygrain]

Does anyone have any specific information wrt this report and it's applicability under the transition rule?

Although IRS agents may see things differently, I would argue that, in cases where the Transition Rule applies, the Clean Vehicle Seller Report is irrelevant and should not be necessary to qualify for a $7500 credit.

Recall that Internal Revenue Bulletin 2023-16 contains the following all-important sentence: "The transition rule provides that such a taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner as the Secretary may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of the IRA."

The Clean Vehicle Seller Report was created by the IRS to implement changes to the EV credit rules enacted by the US congress and signed by Biden on 8/16/22. On 8/15/22, the Clean Vehicle Seller Report (Form 15400) did not exist. Moreover, on 8/15/22, the requirement for EV sellers (including Rivian) to report the sale of each individual VIN to the IRS did not exist. For all EVs ACTUALLY placed in service on or before 8/15/22, the report wasn't required and didn't even exist. On or before 8/15/22, the taxpayer simply entered his VIN on form 8936, which allowed the IRS to use the first 11 or 12 digits of the VIN ... but not the serial number ... to confirm that the vehicle was indeed an EV that qualified (but MSRP, country of manufacture, battery content, etc. did not matter pre-IRA).

The first mention that I can find of this "new" report is in Internal Revenue Bulletin 2022-52 dated December 27, 2022. In the middle of page 566, there is a reference to the yet unnamed report: "(h) The person who sells any vehicle to the taxpayer must furnish a report to the taxpayer and to the Secretary, at such time and in such manner as the Secretary provides, containing the following items: (i) The name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer; ......"

 

[shipdriver]

Although IRS agents may see things differently, I would argue that, in cases where the Transition Rule applies, the Clean Vehicle Seller Report is irrelevant and should not be necessary to qualify for a $7500 credit.

Recall that Internal Revenue Bulletin 2023-16 contains the following all-important sentence: "The transition rule provides that such a taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner as the Secretary may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of the IRA."

The Clean Vehicle Seller Report was created by the IRS to implement changes to the EV credit rules enacted by the US congress and signed by Biden on 8/16/22. On 8/15/22, the Clean Vehicle Seller Report (Form 15400) did not exist. Moreover, on 8/15/22, the requirement for EV sellers (including Rivian) to report the sale of each individual VIN to the IRS did not exist. For all EVs ACTUALLY placed in service on or before 8/15/22, the report wasn't required and didn't even exist. On or before 8/15/22, the taxpayer simply entered his VIN on form 8936, which allowed the IRS to use the first 11 or 12 digits of the VIN ... but not the serial number ... to confirm that the vehicle was indeed an EV that qualified (but MSRP, country of manufacture, battery content, etc. did not matter pre-IRA).

The first mention that I can find of this "new" report is in Internal Revenue Bulletin 2022-52 dated December 27, 2022. In the middle of page 566, there is a reference to the yet unnamed report: "(h) The person who sells any vehicle to the taxpayer must furnish a report to the taxpayer and to the Secretary, at such time and in such manner as the Secretary provides, containing the following items: (i) The name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer; ......"

Thank you!! Been offline for a few days.
I believe the same. However, getting the IRS to is possibly futile. We will likely file a formal appeal ultimately.
I’ve also reached out to Rivian, but not optimistic. Nothing back from my Guide (yet?). Phone & chat next, but I know from others’ experience it can also be difficult. I have been bewildered by the stories of non-service center support on “administrative” issues. My Guide was great pre-delivery. My service center support has been outstanding - 3 mobile (Houston & Memphis) and 1 major in Memphis. The owner experience with these other matters under the non-dealership model could use some improvement.
Thanks again.

 

[FLTANK]

Just wanted to share the positive news that I finally received my full refund check plus interest almost exactly one year after submitting my 2022 amended return. Original submission date was 11/09/23 but the IRS website showed that it wasn’t “accepted” until 01/30/24 so depending on where you start the clock it took 9-12 months overall. Fortunately my submission was accepted in the original form with no additional paperwork required so anyone still waiting should remain hopeful.

 

[SkiLizardHead2]

David,
thank you X 8429.64 times! I followed your guidance to the T and submitted my amended return using TurboTax 6 weeks ago. Could hardly believe the check was in my mailbox today. $8429.64. after reading all the thread I had already assumed this was going to be an ugly or at least a very very lengthy process before I received any checks back at all. the fact that we would not qualify under several of the new terms (income, MSRP of R1T, model year etc etc etc) meant that there were so many easy Ways for the IRS to reject, reduce or dispute my claim means that the information I fed to them on my 1040X was clear and concise to the point they just approved and cut me the check. Very very much appreciated! Hopefully I can give back to the brain trust that these forums are in the future.

Tanuki68,

Thanks for sharing your experience on obtaining the 7500 credit for folks that have a 2022 binding purchase agreement. You mention you used Turbotax for your amended 2022 return. Could you provide any additional info using TX.

I have found 2022 TX to not have the up-to-dated capability to deal with the Transition rule, and the credit is computed as $0 even though I qualify. Also, for example the 8936 form within TX is the older 2022 version.

 

[Mygrain]

I have found 2022 TX to not have the up-to-dated capability to deal with the Transition rule, and the credit is computed as $0 even though I qualify. Also, for example the 8936 form within TX is the older 2022 version.

In December of 2023, I used the 2022 edition of TurboTax to generate my 1040-X and form 8936. TurboTax used the January 2023 revision of 8936, which is the one you want. It has 2 columns for Vehicle 1 and Vehicle 2, and NO QUESTIONS about MSRP or your income. On my 8936, line 3 showed 8/15/2022 as the date placed in service. Mine was a 2023 model. If you're trying to enter a 2025 VIN, that may be tripping up TurboTax.

 

[SkiLizardHead2]

In December of 2023, I used the 2022 edition of TurboTax to generate my 1040-X and form 8936. TurboTax used the January 2023 revision of 8936, which is the one you want. It has 2 columns for Vehicle 1 and Vehicle 2, and NO QUESTIONS about MSRP or your income. On my 8936, line 3 showed 8/15/2022 as the date placed in service. Mine was a 2023 model. If you're trying to enter a 2025 VIN, that may be tripping up TurboTax.

You are correct 2025 is tripping up Turbotax. When I try to hard code 2025 in the forms mode TX flags it. Appears the use case just isn't built into the 2022 version of TX.

I just filed a few days ago the old fashion way - paper 1040x and jan 23 version of 8936 using your suggestions about referencing IRS bulletin and transition rule. My income should not be problem so I will see what happens a few months from now. Thanks for all your suggestions to so many of us that made reservations before IRA signed Aug 16 2022.

 

[usofrob]

I used online TurboTax and I put in the correct VIN, but it wouldn't let me select 2025. So, I just downloaded the PDF and modified the 2022 to 2025, then printed it out. I thought about just striking through the 2022 and putting 2025 with my initials. But I thought it'd probably be better just to have it correct in the first place.

 

[Polar]

FOURTEEN Months later…

Still no $$$ yet, but this is the first progress since Oct ‘23 when they received my amended return.

 

[RoadRunner]

Many thanks to Mygrain and all the other helpful posters in this thread. I used the advice posted here to complete the forms to apply for the $7500 tax credit (1040-X for Amended 2022 tax return, and 2022 version of form 8936). 2025 R1S Dual/Max with binding purchase agreement, delivery in July 2024). Sending it in today, with a copy of the binding purchase agreement and page 749 of the IRS Bulletin 2023-16 with the transition rule section highlighted. It was easier than I expected, hopefully it works!

ill update when I hear from IRS or get the refund.

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