R1S vs Tesla Model X comparison, but really, not much of a comparison when breaking it down!

[kizamybute']

I appreciate your write-up and agree that the differences are pretty stark. Something tells me that the Tesla folks would latch onto the efficiency of a Model X over the R1S (at a cost of usable interior space) and the benefits of buying from an established manufacturer with a built-out service and charging network. I’d be curious to see what else Model X buyers see as selling points over an R1S.

Those are good points for the Tesla. It certainly is more efficient due to it's aerodynamic design. I do notice that difference driving the Rivian myself. Rivian takes a 135 kwh battery to do what Tesla's 100 kwh battery does. At least it's not the Hummer's 200 kwh battery!! But yes, Tesla is better in this respect.

And don't get me wrong. I've loved and owned Tesla cars for about 9 years. They are almost the sole reason we are where we are today. Very thankful to Elon Musk for having a vision and seeing it through. All the while, proving to the world that EV's could be practical and serve as your only vehicle.

EV's still make up well under 5% of the market share, but with solid offerings and competitors FINALLY coming to market, that number will increase.

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[atlastracer]

We took our car-seats and tried to fit them in a used X (6-seater) on a lot. Once we got them in, we determined it was too small inside for road tripping (good luck getting a stroller in the back + anything) with our 4 kids. The shape of the X (and, to a lesser extent, many other 3 row ICE "SUV"s) precludes using the 3rd row regularly and/or transporting stuff.

All of the other "pros" for a Model X aside - it is too small, and I'd argue hardly qualifies as an SUV...however Tesla is not alone in calling lifted station wagons/coupes SUVs. At least some are now being referred to as "CUV" which is more realistic.

Give me a bit box on wheels that doesn't sacrifice the 3rd row headroom + behind seat storage any day of the week. If there was *any* other option right now, I'm not sure Id still be waiting for my R1S. I don't need the off-road capabilities. It's been (almost) 4 years since I placed my pre-order....STILL nothing comparable is available. With the latest delays - I have to wait another year for my R1S LE. Still nothing will be available between now and then to compare.

 

[Siva]

It is important to note that many of these other "competitor" SUVs actually cannot go off-road. They have large brakes or smaller wells which do not accommodate off-road tires.

This is especially true with the non-EV fast/luxury ones like the BMW X5M, Audi RSQ8, Range Rover RR, etc. Those are the only ones really matched with luxury and performance. But they are also ICE. The Mercedes G63AMG is the only one which can go off-road and has luxury/power. But again, not EV. All of those are far pricier than the Rivian.

Can you take the base models of those vehicles off-road? Sure but then you lose the performance feature.

I actually can't think of any real direct competitor to the R1S. Luxury, peformance/speed, off-road capability.

I don't know much about these ICE luxury vehicles, but get a feeling that R1S is up there with only real downside of inferior range and charging time, which in my opinion easily compensated by low maintenance and cheaper/easier at home charging. I think R1S is a steal even at current prices for value minded buyers like me. My guess is buyers of the traditional luxury vehicles pay that high price because of the brand. I can see R1S doing what Model S did to luxury sedans, unless the traditional OEMs can match the specs and price with their own BEV versions.

 

[Siva]

I appreciate your write-up and agree that the differences are pretty stark. Something tells me that the Tesla folks would latch onto the efficiency of a Model X over the R1S (at a cost of usable interior space) and the benefits of buying from an established manufacturer with a built-out service and charging network. I’d be curious to see what else Model X buyers see as selling points over an R1S.

I agree with your points. I scanned couple of MX forums but didn't find any interest for R1S from them. MX and R1S are totally different categories as many pointed out already, except them being BEVs with similar size. I almost dropped R1S from my list for having worst efficiency, but I realized I can't have the cake and eat it too. I am fine with 2miles/KWH for it's capabilities. Charging network is certainly a huge differentiator and I hope Rivian will close the gap in 2-3 years.

 

[mgc0216]

What exactly qualifies as an SUV these days? Specifically how an a car like the Model X or Model Y be called SUVs when they have basically zero off road capabilities?

Is it just the presence of a hatchback and AWD? Seems like a pretty low bar.

 

[fromSf]

Mercedes EQS SUV does have off-road capability but its not going to be anywhere close to R1S. Also, EQS efficiency (107 Kwh battery with expected range of ~320 miles for AWD) is going to be lot better than R1S. InsideEV 70mph test of sedan hit 395 miles (EPA: 350 miles).

EQS falls behind on storage (71 cu ft vs 104 cu ft) and performance (4.5 secs vs 3 secs, 536 hp vs 835hp). In my view, 5 secs or 3 secs really doesn't make big difference.

Also believe EQS second row legroom is bit more than R1S and my guess interior is going to be lot more premium.

EQS is going to be 25-40K more expensive (new R1S pricing) and it scheduled to reach customers around September/October.

 

[Whmorken]

Driven ‘20 X performance 25,000 miles in 2 years in high Rockies. M3 before that. Great highway car, best windshield ever for Teton views, smooth, quick, and comfortable. R1S soon, early ‘19 order. No real competition between the MX and R1S when driving in all weather/all terrain conditions, as I do — Rivian wins, going anytime/anywhere, within reason. Tougher structurally, more versatile, and wins the “fun” metric. But X wins in 3 areas — self-driving feature, charging network, and servicing systems, both mobile and drop-off centers. For me, being elderly and living here, the R1S is my soon to be mountain Champ and the X remains the (3 season) highway King. Cheers to EV pioneers, we get to drive the model T and or A in our day.

 

[kizamybute']

Driven ‘20 X performance 25,000 miles in 2 years in high Rockies. M3 before that. Great highway car, best windshield ever for Teton views, smooth, quick, and comfortable. R1S soon, early ‘19 order. No real competition between the MX and R1S when driving in all weather/all terrain conditions, as I do — Rivian wins, going anytime/anywhere, within reason. Tougher structurally, more versatile, and wins the “fun” metric. But X wins in 3 areas — self-driving feature, charging network, and servicing systems, both mobile and drop-off centers. For me, being elderly and living here, the R1S is my soon to be mountain Champ and the X remains the (3 season) highway King. Cheers to EV pioneers, we get to drive the model T and or A in our day.

I agree. That was why I left the $12,000 FSD option off of the Model X's pricing in my OP. The fact that it is available does give the Tesla an edge, but it will then widen the pricing gap by another $12,000. The basic Auto-Pilot included by Tesla is somewhat more comparable to the Driver+ system Rivian offers.

I compared the two based on them being the only two real 7 seater EV only options available. The Mercedes will be very nice, but as you noted, will also be priced significantly higher. It will be priced closer to the Model X territory. For me, it probably warrants it as Mercedes quality is far superior to most and certainly far superior to the Tesla. Tesla has always been a company that bases prices on "because we can". Currently, demand still outweighs supply. At one point, they were charging close to $170,000 on a fully loaded Performance Model S. By 2019, they caught up and nobody wanted the Model S or X any more and they drastically reduced pricing. I purchased my 2019 Model S at $79,000, which was a hell of a bargain. Ended up selling it three years later for more than that. The market has changed again and the sellers are back in the driver's seat. It will change again, as it always does. Eventually, shortages will subside, manufacturers will catch up to demand and they'll be back to having to reduce prices to get cars sold. This wild swing in pricing however, has been unlike any other that I've seen in my own history of several decades. Can't wait for it to turn around again and can't wait for the days when you can simply walk into a dealer and car shop again, then drive it home that night if you want it. This having to decide what the heck you want 3 years in advance is just ridiculous!

I've loved the Tesla's for many years, but for my own personal tastes and preferences, could not stay on board with the directions they chose to go in. Was so looking forward to seeing what type of truck they would offer, only to see the beast of a Cybertruck be it. And, with a sparse interior, no driver info screen. Some marble looking countertop type dash and half a steering wheel. The Model S/X when the way of the Model 3 minimalism, and then some. As long as we have to still "drive" these cars, I personally need driver friendly functions and controls. Tried the Model S and for me, being that I'm in and out of my vehicle 10+ times a day, rather than just using it to go to and from work, rather "for work", I couldn't deal with the lack of physical shifter, blinkers, half a steering wheel, lack of a horn button, etc, etc. That's when I knew my 2019 would be my last. Thankful that after 9 years, there are finally some viable alternatives. Tesla was in a class of 1 for 8-9 years. Finally, others are starting to catch up, which will be great for the consumer.

 

[kizamybute']

I test drove an iX recently and came away impressed. Felt it was more of a Model X competitor then an R1S, but still really liked it.

I agree, BMW seems to have offered a competitive alternative. For me personally however, I wasn't a fan of the interior. If I still wanted a car, the i4 was very attractive as they left the traditional interior alone. For the iX however, they minimalized it up. Personally, I'm just not a fan of these ultra minimalist interiors. Once these cars become true driverless vehicles and we can be just passengers, then fine. Until then, as long as I still have to "drive" them, I want user friendly controls. It is still one of the turnoffs for me about the Rivian, relying to heavily on the center screen. I at least appreciate that Rivian left wiper controls, lights, shifting, blinkers and horn controls in traditional spaces. I don't like having to double tap to control the AC, double tap to open the garage door, double, triple or quadruple tap to get to certain radio controls.

A few, nicely integrated physical buttons can still be incorporated into minimalist interior styling. For the items like music and AC, which most use quite frequently, they should be front and center, no more than a single tap away. Physical controls would also prevent having to lose your navigation map or radio controls while you're trying to control something else, then have to go back to the navigation screen when you're done. Fortunately, I like most other things Rivian has done, so this is just a sacrifice I'm having to learn to live with. I do hope they'll do what Tesla did and allow us to configure some icons at the bottom to suit the items we use most frequently so they're a single tap away rather than multiple sub-menu's away.

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