Potential EV Incentives

cohall

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I saw that article as well. I think raising it to $10K is a distinct possibility under the current administration.

That said, and the article touches on this, I also think it's highly likely that they introduce different tiers of discount/rebate based on MSRP. So for Rivian in particular, I don't think we'll see additional upside with incentives. There is a chance that we see some reduction in incentives for Rivian, IMO.
 

Mjhirsch78

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Scaling it back for more expensive cars makes sense for an incentive theoretically designed to encourage folks who might have to stretch to afford the new tech. Wealthy folks can afford it. Average folks need the edge. I know a LOT of people who would consider electric, but just can’t pay the premium right now for their only vehicle that has to do it all.
 

thrill

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Scaling it back for more expensive cars makes sense for an incentive theoretically designed to encourage folks who might have to stretch to afford the new tech. Wealthy folks can afford it. Average folks need the edge. I know a LOT of people who would consider electric, but just can’t pay the premium right now for their only vehicle that has to do it all.
Incentives should incentivize. The wealthy look for a discount too. Allowing expensive vehicles to take advantage of incentives means more money for the companies advancing this technology, allowing broader adoption sooner, allegedly the whole point of incentives.
 

skyote

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I'm going to copy/paste some of my comments from FB as it relates to the price cap issue:

I agree in principle but there is a significant consideration.

Newer EV companies like Rivian and Lucid (as well as Tesla before them) start with higher priced models before moving down-market to more affordable vehicles. I'd argue these newer & more innovative companies need the incentives more than traditional auto, who can make more affordable EVs out of the gate.

In summary, I oppose the price cap until there are more established EV companies & EVs are more prevalent in general.
 

skyote

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And in response to a couple questions about how long the current credit has been in effect (isn't 10 years long enough for higher priced vehicles?) and if price cap might influence manufacturers to start with more affordable models:

We have Tesla to thank, and I believe EVs are just now reaching the point where they are considered both viable & desirable.

Price cap incentives might cause startups to focus more on affordability first, but it could also hurt companies that have already chosen the HALO path, which helps their brand & sets them up for that longer term success. Unfortunately, it's these HALO offerings that get people excited about EVs & EV companies.
 

DucRider

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There most definitely should be a cap or tiered system. the only question is at what level(s).
Offering a $7,500 tax credit on a $1M+ EV (Rimac, etc) does not increase EV adoption.
The Model S Plaid and Lucid Air Dream sales numbers would not move much - if at all - with a lower or even eliminated federal incentive (in the case of the Tesla, numbers would not increase by adding one).
EVs that sell at well over $100K will likely pick up few (if any) sales numbers by throwing in $5K. They might sell with more options, but very few people that would otherwise buy an ICE would decide on an EV instead.

The "American Made" part gets sticky. The Mach e is made in Mexico by a company based in the US. The ID.4 will be made in the US (in a year or so) by a company based in another country. Which would qualify as "American Made"? Or is it based on a country of origin for parts with a minimum US%? This kind of provision creates too much room for games, red tape and loopholes.
 

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I can tell you that the tax credit helped with my spousal justification for a Rivian. She still gave me a hard time the other day about paying so much for a vehicle.

I would agree with a $100K cap, but think the incentive is needed up to that amount to move people to EVs instead of less expensive ICE vehicles from "proven" companies.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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I think the more incentives for EVs, the better. Yes, we need more affordable EVs, but I still think it's okay to incentivize more expensive EVs -- even if high-income-earners are the ones primarily buying them. Anything that accelerates the adoption of EVs is a probably good, imo.
 

DucRider

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I can tell you that the tax credit helped with my spousal justification for a Rivian. She still gave me a hard time the other day about paying so much for a vehicle.

I would agree with a $100K cap, but think the incentive is needed up to that amount to move people to EVs instead of less expensive ICE vehicles from "proven" companies.
Pretty much the same situation here. At ~$70K the incentive will make a difference.
It is also important to have any incentive based on actual selling price.
The Oregon incentive is for vehicles with a base MSRP <$50K. So a $75K Model Y or $70K Model 3 qualifies for the Oregon incentive while a $67,500 R1T does not.
In Canada, Tesla was (is?) offering a software limited Model 3 "off the menu" with reduced range at under their $50K cap so that all Model 3's qualify. Anyone that does decide to purchase it can later pay the extra to unlock the full battery.
 

DuckTruck

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Pretty much the same situation here. At ~$70K the incentive will make a difference.
It is also important to have any incentive based on actual selling price.
The Oregon incentive is for vehicles with a base MSRP <$50K. So a $75K Model Y or $70K Model 3 qualifies for the Oregon incentive while a $67,500 R1T does not.
In Canada, Tesla was (is?) offering a software limited Model 3 "off the menu" with reduced range at under their $50K cap so that all Model 3's qualify. Anyone that does decide to purchase it can later pay the extra to unlock the full battery.
In order to help all the fine people in the Rivian family enjoy the highest possible federal and state rebates, I'll gladly step up and take one for the team and purchase my LE R1T for $49,999. I'm guessing that means the camp kitchen is off the table for now, but as with Tesla, I can pay the extra for it later.

No need to thank me, sometimes we just do what we have to do to help others.😇
 

DucRider

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In order to help all the fine people in the Rivian family enjoy the highest possible federal and state rebates, I'll gladly step up and take one for the team and purchase my LE R1T for $49,999. I'm guessing that means the camp kitchen is off the table for now, but as with Tesla, I can pay the extra for it later.

No need to thank me, sometimes we just do what we have to do to help others.😇
Actually Tesla was able to get the Model 3 qualified out of the gate by announcing that they would have one for <$50K sometime in the future. If Rivian wants to officially announce that they will have a 2 motor R1T (as an example) with a small pack for <$50K base at some future time, we can likely get the $2,500 from Oregon.
 

thrill

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Putting caps on EV incentive prices is simply overcomplicating the law. There's so few buyers for $1 MM EVs that it just doesn't matter.

As for American made, that should, if it's going to exist, be a different incentive. The selling point for EV incentives is not the location of manufacture. If there's going to be an incentive for American made products then it's no different than a selective tariff, with all the real economic downsides and pitiful political upsides.
 

thrill

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Actually Tesla was able to get the Model 3 qualified out of the gate by announcing that they would have one for <$50K sometime in the future. If Rivian wants to officially announce that they will have a 2 motor R1T (as an example) with a small pack for <$50K base at some future time, we can likely get the $2,500 from Oregon.
I think it was you that once mentioned Tesla sold some vehicles with greater capabilities locked to qualify for incentive programs. I'm much more for that kind of gaming the game approach than compromising vehicle capabilities. The resell value for one thing is higher if the second owner can buy the extra 100 horsepower with a software upgrade.
 

SANZC02

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I think it was you that once mentioned Tesla sold some vehicles with greater capabilities locked to qualify for incentive programs. I'm much more for that kind of gaming the game approach than compromising vehicle capabilities. The resell value for one thing is higher if the second owner can buy the extra 100 horsepower with a software upgrade.
Not sure if they did it for incentive programs or to generate sales. Back in 2016 when they started taking reservations for the model 3, they started selling a Model S 60 that was a software limited 75 that listed for 10K less than the 75. This put it in the same price range of what the high-end Model 3 would be. They did this to pull some of the Model 3 reservation holders into a model S.

I took the deal, I figured I would get the car 2 years earlier (especially with Tesla's history for meeting delivery dates) and would be certain to be able to take advantage of the 7500 tax credit before they hit 200K vehicles. The tax credit was not a certainty once the Model 3's started delivery as they were getting closer to the 200K limit.

It all proved good for me. I was able to get into an EV 2 years ahead of the people that made reservations with me for the Model 3. I got my full tax credit and 2 years after I purchased the car, they sent me an email to unlock the extra 15K/wh in the battery for 2K and rebadge the car from a 60 to a 75.
 

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