Possible Major Security issue with Alarm system

Gdorff

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As someone in IT I couldn't agree more, and I actually told the guy on the Reddit AMA the exact same thing, if door = locked keep screen off.

I think more of use need to voice our concern if this is more widespread.
This is crazy, the alarm should absolutely activate in these scenarios.

If they don't plan of deactivating the screen it should be disabled with a pin until a proper remote unlock is done.. like a valet mode keeping lockable storage locked..

 

crashmtb

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duessell

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First, it seems like the alarm should sound.

Second, the doors opening and screen turning on might be sensible choices. Like another person, said, this is common for most cars. With the exception of child locks on rear doors, you have to be able to open front doors in an emergency. And you need to be able to open the rear doors in an emergency from outside. One use case here might be smashing a window and extracting a person or pet (I know, pet mode but let's say something else was going on). Same thing for gaining access to the bed, frunk and gear tunnel; they're all large enough to hold a person and emergency access at the cost of smashing a window is sensible even in addition to the emergency releases inside those areas.

So yeah, the alarm should sound. But if someone smashes a window, chances are their getting the thing they smashed the window for.

If you want to test with windows up, you could have a person awkwardly stay inside but not on a seat when you lock and then have them open the door with it still locked.
 

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I imagine if every owner who reads this opens a service ticket for it, then it will get some higher prioritization.
 

The J-Man

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Ok, I did some extensive testing and my car has this problem and more.

My truck does not appear to have an audible alarm under any circumstance.

I get into truck and sit on floor. Windows up. Wife locks doors with keyfob outside of truck. All phone keys disabled. After 30 seconds the truck hibernates and all screens go off.

I wave my arms around - the Rivian does not appear to have an interior motion sensor because nothing happens.

Next, I open the passenger door while still seated on the floor. It takes a double pull to open it. No alarm goes off and no exterior lights flash. The screens turn on allowing me to access the frunk, tonneau, gear tunnel, etc.

When activating panic mode on the key fob, I get amber lights flashing on exterior, but nothing audible.

What gives? Does the R1T not have an alarm system?
 


The J-Man

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If you want to test with windows up, you could have a person awkwardly stay inside but not on a seat when you lock and then have them open the door with it still locked.
I did this. R1T alarm system either does not exist, or does not work.
 

kylealden

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I've gotten a notification that my alarm was triggered once when parking on a ferry. However I never heard an audible alarm and there wasn't one when I returned to the vehicle.

A few conclusions and recommendations here in my personal priority order:
  1. The screen and various locking features (frunk/trunk/tunnels/etc.) are fully operable when the truck is locked and no key is present. This is utterly unacceptable. Rivian should follow Tesla's model and disable the screens when locked, and sound the alarm if a door opens when locked. This prevents a bad breakin from getting worse.
  2. The Gear Guard Alarm seems to only have major event sensors (e.g. someone is towing/jacking/rocking the truck, ala my ferry incident), and not intrusion sensors (glass/camera/occupancy sensors). This seems like a major gap.
  3. The audible alarm doesn't seem to work. This should be fixed but I'm not sure this has ever actually prevented a breakin.
I'm curious if anyone has tested the gear guard in the truck bed (e.g. repeat this test, but instead of climbing in the front, climb in the bed and maybe mess with a gear guard cable). This is a major advertised use case and I'm nervous that it doesn't work. (If you can just smash a window and unlock the gear guard cables that way, similarly calling foul on the Gear Guard Cable security.)
 

yizzung

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Perhaps I too will give this a try at the service center tomorrow while I’m picking up my truck…
 
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pc500

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So let me start out by saying a few things:

First, I don't know if this affects EVERY truck out there but I can tell you it affects the 3 I've talked to people about and I think the majority are affected.

Second, I submitted a support case with Rivian about this a month ago, also sent it to my guide, and DMed the software engineer on the reddit AMA from last month (no reply). While support has called me back a few times (only after calling them) they haven't acknowledge the issue and having provided a fix. They keep referring to it as an issue with "my truck" and they are still investigating it but I'm pretty sure it's MUCH bigger then that.

Third, I've been sitting on this hoping it would have been fixed in the latest software update but after my testing today it wasn't.

Finally, I'm a little apprehensive about posting this at all as it could leave people vulnerable (myself included), but at the same time if the issue is as big as I think it is, Rivian needs to make it priority one to fix, and the more people report it the faster that will happen.

Here is video of the issue, I'm marking it as a spoiler so hopefully it won't show up on google searches etc.


Some thoughts:

The biggest issue other then the alarm not going off is the screens turning on. This gives you full access to EVERY lockable storage area in the truck. So in theory, with one smashed window, ALL your stuff is gone.

It should also be noted that pushing the panic button on the FOB flashes the lights on the truck and nothing else. It doesn't honk at all, there are no gear guard "alarm" videos, nothing.

Watch the video, test it on your own truck, and if you have the same issue, please report it Rivian support so we can get it fixed for everyone.
Does the garage door opener work?
 

KiloV

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I can see the potential downside here but maybe I'm an idiot for not viewing this as a major security issue? I feel like the solution is to not leave your windows open when you leave your vehicle...fairly simple fix, no? Context - I'm coming from an older ICE where if I left my window open you would have the same type of access and be able to unlock the doors and get at anything in the vehicle. Is it a standard feature in newer cars, particularly EVs, to not allow access to the vehicle through open windows?

*Edited to confirm that I am, in fact, an idiot and didn't read spoiler #2 :)
Yeah, I'm not getting it either. If the window is open in any vehicle, you would have a similar level of access. Once you get in the cabin of any vehicle, you can pop the trunk, root around in the glove box, whatever. I guess if you have a locking tonneau cover/tailgate setup in a legacy ICE truck, you wouldn't be able to access the bed. I'm not sure I see this as significantly less secure than any other vehicle. It looks like Gear Guard Gary doesn't think he's on duty if the window is left down. Not sure if that's intentional or not. Probably is. Again, if the window is open, the door locks are pretty much moot.
 


KiloV

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Whoops! Definitely missed that 2nd spoiler :) and understandable that you wouldn't want to smash your own window. I do remember seeing a video making the rounds of a smash and grab and was shocked that fully breaking the glass does not trigger the alarm system. Extra bad if you can then access all locked compartments!
I read the second spoiler. My question is, has anyone confirmed that, if the Gear Guard alarm is on and a window is smashed, the alarm doesn't go off? There's a big difference between "window left down" and "window smashed." If the window is smashed with the alarm function turned on and nothing happens, then that sucks. If the alarm doesn't sound when the window is left down by the owner, I'm not sure this is a real problem. I know no one is going to smash their window to test this, but it seems like this is an important fact.
 

KiloV

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As someone in IT I couldn't agree more, and I actually told the guy on the Reddit AMA the exact same thing, if door = locked keep screen off.

I think more of use need to voice our concern if this is more widespread.
Slight modification here: If no valid "unlock signal" is received, the screens should remain dark. The door locks will disengage when you pull on them twice. This is a safety issue so that someone doesn't get locked inside without a key. So, after smashing a window, a bad guy could physically disengage the door locks from inside the cab. You would want the screens to stay dark in this scenario even though the doors are unlocked.
 

The J-Man

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Garage door opener works upon breaking into the car.

I was able to trigger a visual alarm by sitting on the floor, having wife lock doors from outside with fob, and waiting until the gear guard animation played on the screen.

Then I opened the door and the exterior lights started flashing, but no audio.

All options in center screen were available to me including unlock , which released the gear guard cable in the bed.

Gear guard does not have an alarm event recorded.

I also found some interesting items in the service menu.

This may indicate that the audible alarm is off.

ADFDEA21-C4F5-4DEF-8B41-EDC84C9A27F9.jpeg


316597E5-5307-4DD8-B2B4-ABECD6E569E0.jpeg
 
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Khaneric

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Well as I suspected this seems to be fleet wide. Please open tickets with Rivian so we can get this addressed.

Thanks for testing your own trucks everyone
 

Ash

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Tested mine and verified, no alarm. I think this is a huge security flaw. The fact that the Rivian has computer controlled switches for everything means this should be an easy fix. When the truck is locked, it should be on lockdown, including the center console. Nothing should work besides the safety releases inside the bed and frunk. The only thing the screen should do is show live video of the cameras and of course the truck should flash and honk like hell to draw attention if a door is opened while the truck is locked, even in pet mode. Glass break sensors are really cheap and reliable, but I don' know if the truck has one.

Update: Ticket submitted. Also taking my truck in for service later this month and will address it with them if Rivian hasn't contacted me about the issue. If you submit a ticket, please don't forget to mention the center console buttons should be disabled when the truck is broken into. I may leave some personal items in the there I do not want in the hands of a criminal. Thanks.
 
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