Plugshare EVSE Sharing

[ajdelange]

Here's the relevant part from NEC 2020

Sponsored

 

[electruck]

While city/county/state codes are often more restrictive than the NEC I have never heard of one that relaxes NEC requirements and I would be very concerned about this. The reason I would be worried is that NEC is promulgated by the NFPA which is an organization dominated by the insurance industry (NFPA = National FIre Protection Association). It's obvious what their interest is in all this. If you were to follow your inspector's recommendation and there were to be a fire would your insurance company honor the claim? I think your man is probably dead out wrong on this (it's a new requirement) and would strongly advise following NEC. He can't flunk you for doing that. I'd check the state code or at least consult an electrician experienced in installing EVSE.

Thanks, all good feedback and I'd like to respond to the above quoted portion of your response. I believe the reason the City still allows for 14-60R is that the State of Texas has not officially adopted NEC 2020. We're still on NEC 2017 although probably not for much longer as they are on a 3 year update cycle and the last update was Sept 2017. Certainly no guarantees but I suspect from the perspective of an insurance claim, all they are going to look at is whether a permit was issued for the installation, whether the City inspected and approved (which my City's Chief Electrical Inspector has stated they would - as of today) and the codes being enforced at the time.

That said, choosing to install per NEC 2020 would preclude the use of EVSE such as the WattZilla Wall Watz (although the 48A version may also support being hard wired, I'll have to reach out to them about that) or Black Mamba (which obviously can't be hard wired).

Out of curiosity, what can you share about THHN through in-wall conduit? This is another point where I have been getting different answers between the City and electrician. Electrician wouldn't support in-wall conduit but City stated that concealed (in-wall) or exposed (on-wall) installation is acceptable. Is this another one of those 2017 vs 2020 code changes that the State/City have not adopted yet?

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks, all good feedback and I'd like to respond to the above quoted portion of your response. I believe the reason the City still allows for 14-60R is that the State of Texas has not officially adopted NEC 2020. We're still on NEC 2017 although probably not for much longer as they are on a 3 year update cycle and the last update was Sept 2017.

I thought the plugs went out with the 2017 edition but I could certainly be wrong on that.

Certainly no guarantees but I suspect from the perspective of an insurance claim, all they are going to look at is whether a permit was issued for the installation, whether the City inspected and approved (which my City's Chief Electrical Inspector has stated they would - as of today) and the codes being enforced at the time.

That may very well be the case. But I'd want to be sure. I think the scary part is that if the inspector is wrong neither he nor the city are responsible for losses that you incur because of his incompetence.

That said, choosing to install per NEC 2020 would preclude the use of EVSE such as the WattZilla Wall Watz (although the 48A version may also support being hard wired,

The plugs are an option. They can, AFAIK, all be hard wired.

I'll have to reach out to them about that) or Black Mamba (which obviously can't be hard wired).

I've had some intersting conversations with Frank about just this (Mamba). That brings up another issue. EVSE must be "listed". A Black Mamba with a 14-60P on it is listed by some agency but not one that is acceptable in the US - or something like that. Recollection is a little hazy.

Out of curiosity, what can you share about THHN through in-wall conduit?

It's a PITA!! Buy lots of pull lube.

This is another point where I have been getting different answers between the City and electrician. Electrician wouldn't support in-wall conduit but City stated that concealed (in-wall) or exposed (on-wall) installation is acceptable. Is this another one of those 2017 vs 2020 code changes that the State/City have not adopted yet?

I don't see much point in conduit behind a wall. Why not use SE cable? No. 6 copper supports 65A.

 

[electruck]

The plugs are an option. They can, AFAIK, all be hard wired.

Just got a response from Frank, 48A Wall Wattz does support hard wiring but apparently you have to phone in the order to get that option. He didn't specify what needs to change at the factory to support that but apparently it's not readily converted by a licensed electrician. Perhaps it has to do with maintaining the 4X enclosure rating.

Why not use SE cable? No. 6 copper supports 65A.

Good question. Neither of 2 electricians or my City inspector has mentioned SE cable. I won't be doing the install, I'm just trying to educate myself here as the electricians I've spoken with aren't exactly offering solutions that I am happy with and I don't know enough to suggest viable alternatives. I'm really just looking for a way to install a 48A EVSE that doesn't result in exposed conduit/boxes and no (or minimal) exposed wiring. I'm sure their guidance is being influenced as much by ease of install as by NEC (they aren't violating NEC, they just aren't forthcoming with compliant solutions that achieve my cosmetic objectives).

 

[DucRider]

Thanks, all good feedback and I'd like to respond to the above quoted portion of your response. I believe the reason the City still allows for 14-60R is that the State of Texas has not officially adopted NEC 2020. We're still on NEC 2017 although probably not for much longer as they are on a 3 year update cycle and the last update was Sept 2017. Certainly no guarantees but I suspect from the perspective of an insurance claim, all they are going to look at is whether a permit was issued for the installation, whether the City inspected and approved (which my City's Chief Electrical Inspector has stated they would - as of today) and the codes being enforced at the time.

That said, choosing to install per NEC 2020 would preclude the use of EVSE such as the WattZilla Wall Watz (although the 48A version may also support being hard wired, I'll have to reach out to them about that) or Black Mamba (which obviously can't be hard wired).

Out of curiosity, what can you share about THHN through in-wall conduit? This is another point where I have been getting different answers between the City and electrician. Electrician wouldn't support in-wall conduit but City stated that concealed (in-wall) or exposed (on-wall) installation is acceptable. Is this another one of those 2017 vs 2020 code changes that the State/City have not adopted yet?

2017 NEC is when the change limiting plugs to 50 amp was implemented (see my post above for the 2017 language). For all practical purposes, your permit would be for the install of the 14-60R, and if you have the inspection done before you mount/install the EVSE they would have no (edited to correct) basis to fail you.
But, the portion of the code limiting plug in EVSEs was not implemented randomly and without reason. Someone that was safety minded would pay attention to that and hardwire their EVSE if it will draw more than 40A. Per their website, the Wall Watz can be hardwired, but their documentation does not show that it is available with the required pigtail.

 

[ajdelange]

For all practical purposes, your permit would be for the install of the 14-60R, and if you have the inspection done before you mount/install the EVSE they would have basis to fail you.

Is that what you meant to say? How do they know the receptacle isn't for a welder?

 

[electruck]

2017 NEC is when the change limiting plugs to 50 amp was implemented (see my post above for the 2017 language). For all practical purposes, your permit would be for the install of the 14-60R, and if you have the inspection done before you mount/install the EVSE they would have basis to fail you.
But, the portion of the code limiting plug in EVSEs was not implemented randomly and without reason. Someone that was safety minded would pay attention to that and hardwire their EVSE if it will draw more than 40A. Per their website, the Wall Watz can be hardwired, but their documentation does not show that it is available with the required pigtail.

Thanks, I had missed your previous reply.

As for the Wall Watz, they responded back to me that the 48A model can be hard wired but you have to phone in the order for that option.

 

[DucRider]

Is that what you meant to say? How do they know the receptacle isn't for a welder?

Typo. Shouldha ve been "no reason to fail you". Will fix it

 

[Aknrnb]

I'm looking at the same unit. Just can't decide if it goes inside or outside.

Curious to see what you decided on--- I'm in AK also (Anchorage) and will need an outdoor charging option at home.

 

[Moonjock]

Curious to see what you decided on--- I'm in AK also (Anchorage) and will need an outdoor charging option at home.

I haven't decided yet, at the moment I'm still leaning on putting the truck in the garage. I'm in Valdez so if I keep it in the garage there is less snow to remove before I leave the house. My current truck does not really fit in my garage.

Sponsored