Plugshare EVSE Sharing

jimcgov3

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
299
Reaction score
275
Location
Jacksonville, Florida // Satellite Beach, FL
First Name
Jimmy
Vehicles
2016 Chevy Spark EV, Rivian R1T Reservation Holder
Good evening.

I recently completed the permanent installation of my 48A WattZilla WallWattz EVSE at the house. I have since added it to Plugshare to share with our EV friends in need of a last-minute charge. With my close proximity to I-10 and I-95, I figured that I could help out when called upon. It is overkill for my 2016 Chevy SparkEV but will work splendidly on my R1T.

How many have already done this, or plan to do this once they get their EVSEs installed?
 
Last edited:

Moonjock

Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
9
Location
Alaska
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
2002 Chevrolet Avalanche
Occupation
Lab Tech
I'm looking at the same unit. Just can't decide if it goes inside or outside.
 

EyeOnRivian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
444
Reaction score
347
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicles
Mitsubishi Endeavor, pre-ordered R1S but may change to R1T
  • Like
Reactions: Jay

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
I applaud your kindness.

No, I have not and would not list my chargers on PlugShare for several reasons the main one of which is probably that my perception of the "public" is doubtless somewhat less optimistic than yours. Also my neighbors wouldn't appreciate strange vehicles coming in and out at all hours and I am away for extended periods when the chargers (in my garage) would not be available. Finally, there are literally dozens of chargers available within a few miles of where I live.

I do think the Wattzilla products are solid, however. I carry a Black Mamba in the car on long trips. It lets me charge up to 48 A at any place I can find a NEMA 14 -30, 50 or 60 receptacle. Haven't needed it so far but it will probably become the EVSE for my R1T.
 

delmi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
19
Reaction score
27
Location
Seattle ES
Vehicles
2017 Land Rover Discovery
Don't you think that it is about time that Rivian makes public some info about it's chargers and what is req'd and available. I would like to install a charger in my garage before my R1T gets here but I have no idea what is necessary or optional. I would like to know where the charger port is located and the size and requirements for various chargers. I anticipate that the port will be in the front of the vehicle and preferably on the left side. How big are the various chargers and what voltage?
I need definitive info and the sooner the better.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
149
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
Don't you think that it is about time that Rivian makes public some info about it's chargers and what is req'd and available. I would like to install a charger in my garage before my R1T gets here but I have no idea what is necessary or optional. I would like to know where the charger port is located and the size and requirements for various chargers. I anticipate that the port will be in the front of the vehicle and preferably on the left side. How big are the various chargers and what voltage?
I need definitive info and the sooner the better.
The charger is in the vehicle and is capable of accepting up to 48A from an EVSE. The charger will most likely have a range something like 90 to 264 Volts, and therefore will accept either 120 or 240 (nominal) voltage as found in US homes.
Any EVSE with a J1772 plug will be capable of providing AC current to the charger. The higher the amperage (up to 48) and voltage of the EVSE, the faster it will charge your Rivian.
To minimize charge time, you will need a 48A EVSE on a 60A 240V circuit. Although there are a few of these with plugs, the NEC requires that anything over 40A be hardwired. You can install a higher amperage EVSE, but your Rivian will not utilize more than 48A.
The EVSE "advertises" the amperage it can provide, and the vehicle controls the charge and will not attempt to draw more than the EVSE can safely provide. A bit more about the protocol used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

It is fairly certain that the port will indeed be on the front left, but an EVSE with a 25' cable should be able to be positioned to reach either side in most installation scenarios.

If you install before the end of the year, there is a 30% Federal Tax Credit available
 

delmi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
19
Reaction score
27
Location
Seattle ES
Vehicles
2017 Land Rover Discovery
The charger is in the vehicle and is capable of accepting up to 48A from an EVSE. The charger will most likely have a range something like 90 to 264 Volts, and therefore will accept either 120 or 240 (nominal) voltage as found in US homes.
Any EVSE with a J1772 plug will be capable of providing AC current to the charger. The higher the amperage (up to 48) and voltage of the EVSE, the faster it will charge your Rivian.
To minimize charge time, you will need a 48A EVSE on a 60A 240V circuit. Although there are a few of these with plugs, the NEC requires that anything over 40A be hardwired. You can install a higher amperage EVSE, but your Rivian will not utilize more than 48A.
The EVSE "advertises" the amperage it can provide, and the vehicle controls the charge and will not attempt to draw more than the EVSE can safely provide. A bit more about the protocol used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

It is fairly certain that the port will indeed be on the front left, but an EVSE with a 25' cable should be able to be positioned to reach either side in most installation scenarios.

If you install before the end of the year, there is a 30% Federal Tax Credit available
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Don't you think that it is about time that Rivian makes public some info about it's chargers and what is req'd and available.
What is required is any Level 2 EVSE and a circuit in your house/garage to supply it. As to what is available, search "EVSE Amazon", The Rivian will not accept more than 48A so if you want the max charging rate select a 48A unit. It will require a separate 60A 208 - 240 V circuit from your breaker panel which must be hard wired. 32A units are very popular and are often equipped with a NEMA 14-50P which is a common solution where NEMA 14-50R receptacles are wired behind a 40 or 50A breaker (which is why they are limited to 32A even if plugged into a 50A circuit). Plug equipped units have the advantage that they are easily moved from location to location (including, for example, a summer home) as long as that location is equipped with the suitable receptacle.

EVSE differ in the current they supply, the supply (hardwired/plug) and in the bells and whistles which are usually WiFi connection related things like the ability to start and stop and/or schedule charging from your smartphone. Where we need information from Rivian at this point is as to how much of this remote charging control in built into the car itself so that we can decide whether these features are needed from the EVSE. There are also plug bearing 48A portable units (the Wattzilla mentioned in a previous post) but they are of questionable "legality" under the latest version of the NEC.

The EVSE mentioned above are all equipped with J1772 connectors but you may want to consider the TESLA Gen 3 HPWC as it is capable of charging a Rivian with a Tesla/J1772 adapter. Whether you decide to use HPWC as your EVSE or not that adapter (TeslaTap) is a good thing to have on board as it enables charging of your Rivian from any Tesla Level 2 "Destination Charger" (but NOT the Super Chargers) of which there are quite a few. Obviously using HPWC for EVSE is very appealing if you also have or plan to have Tesla BEVs but a nice feature of them is that, when their firmware is mature, they will be able to distribute a specified charging load among several vehicles. They also tend to be less expensive than other manufacturers' products.

Rivian is doubtless going to supply some version of what Tesla calls a "Universal Mobile Connector" which will allow you to plug anywhere there is a power receptacle compatible with Rivian's version. It will certainly allow plugging in to at least a 120V house receptacle (Level 1 charging - so you can charge "anywhere") and probably have at least a 14-50P plug as well (though Tesla stopped providing one of those free), That would allow you to charge in many RV parks, behind the stove in most new houses etc.
 
Last edited:

OldEVGuy

Active Member
First Name
Barry
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
40
Reaction score
39
Location
Dublin, Ohio
First Name
Barry
Vehicles
2019 Jeep Cherokee
Occupation
Retired
I sent an email to Rivian a few days ago, asking them about EVSE for my garage. Here’s the response I received:

Congratulations on placing a preorder on the R1S! For home setup, additional equipment (eg: Wall Box) with a CCS connector should do the trick. Using a J1772 connector and a 40 A circuit, you can expect a full charge every morning when you plug your vehicle in before bed. We'll be sharing more information on home charging solutions closer to the start of production.

I’ve decided on the JuiceBox 40. It’s on sale through next Monday. I wanted to have one installed before the end of the year, to take advantage of the Federal Tax Credit, and also a rebate from my local electric company.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
366
Reaction score
306
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2018 Volvo XC60
I've also been looking into my EVSE options as I'm essentially in the process of remodeling my garage and want to get the wiring in place before drywall repairs and paint so that I don't have to open things back up again later. Plus, who knows what will happen with the federal tax credit after this year, I'd like to take advantage of it while I can.

Be sure to check your local codes to see what they will allow. For example, it was stated above that "the NEC requires that anything over 40A be hardwired" and that supporting a 48A EVSE "...will require a separate 60A 208 - 240 V circuit from your breaker panel which must be hard wired." While I'm sure this is all true in certain locations, it seems my city does support a corded/plug-in connection on 60A circuits.

While a dedicated circuit would be required, the Chief Electrical Inspector for my city has informed me that "a NEMA 14-60 receptacle is permitted in a residential garage and is not required to be GFCI."

This is of course specific to my city but highlights the need check your local codes, especially if you're interested in a 48A EVSE to provide the max charge rate your Rivian will support. Of course, the benefits of 48A over 40A EVSE are minimal with overnight charging and NEMA 14-50 receptacles are more commonly found - especially when traveling. But it's always better to have all the facts and make a well informed decision.

It's also important to look into the wiring requirements of the EVSE you are interested in. For example, I found the ChargePoint Home Flex supports 48A charging if hard wired. But I also found that the input terminals only support 6 AWG wiring. Per my inspector, this would preclude the use of 6 AWG NM cable (Romex) as it is only rated for 55A but could be hard wired using flexible conduit with 6 AWG type THHN conductors that are rated for 65A.

Lot's to consider if you're adding a new circuit rather than leveraging what might already be in place....
 
Last edited:

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Using a J1772 connector and a 40 A circuit, you can expect a full charge every morning when you plug your vehicle in before bed.


Need to clarify this a little. A 40 amp circuit will support 32 A charging (80% of the circuit capacity). At 240 V that's 7.68 kW. Assuming the truck uses 450 Wh/mi that means a charge rate of
0.9*7680/450 = 15.36 miles per hour (the 0.9 is for 90% charging efficiency) which means 154 miles added in 10 hours. If you are driving under 154 miles per day that's fine. But the truck is capable of charging at 48 A with a charger wired to a 60A circuit. That's 1.5 times faster meaning 23 miles per hour for 230 miles in a 10 hour charge period.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
149
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
While a dedicated circuit would be required, the Chief Electrical Inspector for my city has informed me that "a NEMA 14-60 receptacle is permitted in a residential garage and is not required to be GFCI."
This is true, but an EVSE is not allowed (by code) to be connected to that circuit. EVSE installation is rare enough that many inspectors are not fully aware of the requirements (few can memorize the entire code).
Section 625 of the NEC specifically addresses the additional requirements for EVSE installation. It is possible, but would be unusual, that a City would adopt a Code based the NEC (almost always the case) and then loosen some restrictions in specific sections. I have seen them add additional requirements/restrictions, but never decide that portions of the NEC were overly cautious and went too far in promoting safe wiring practices.

625.44 Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment Connection.
Electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permitted to be cord and plug connected to the premises wiring system in accordance with one of the following:
(A) Electric vehicle supply equipment intended for connection to receptacle outlets rated at 125 volts, single phase, 15 and 20 amperes.
(B) Electric vehicle supply equipment that is rated 250 volts maximum and complies with all of the following:
(1) It is installed indoors and or part of a system identified and listed system as suitable for the purpose and meeting the requirements of 625.18, 625.19, and 625.50 and 625.52 shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected.
(2) It is intended for connection to receptacle outlets rated no more than 50 amperes.
(3) It is installed to facilitate any of the following:
a. Ready removal for interchange
b. Facilitate maintenance and repair
c. Repositioning of Portable, movable, or EVSE fastened in place
(4) Power supply cord length for electric vehicle supply equipment fastened in place is limited to 6 ft (1.8 m).
(5) Receptacles are located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
All other electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected to the premises wiring system and fastened in place. This The electric vehicle supply equipment shall have no exposed live parts.

This requirement is a change made to the NEC with the 2017 edition, so it is possible your City is using an older version of the code, but most automatically adopt revisions and updates as they are made.
Section 625 with markups (underlined text is new, strike thru on removed wording):
http://mydocs.epri.com/docs/publicm...G Kissel Article 625 Restructure Proposal.pdf
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Be sure to check your local codes to see what they will allow.
Yes, by all means do that as local codes sometimes have additional requirements.

For example, it was stated above that "the NEC requires that anything over 40A be hardwired" and that supporting a 48A EVSE "...will require a separate 60A 208 - 240 V circuit from your breaker panel which must be hard wired." While I'm sure this is all true in certain locations,..
It is true anywhere in the USA.

it seems my city does support a corded/plug-in connection on 60A circuits.

While a dedicated circuit would be required, the Chief Electrical Inspector for my city has informed me that "a NEMA 14-60 receptacle is permitted in a residential garage..
While city/county/state codes are often more restrictive than the NEC I have never heard of one that relaxes NEC requirements and I would be very concerned about this. The reason I would be worried is that NEC is promulgated by the NFPA which is an organization dominated by the insurance industry (NFPA = National FIre Protection Association). It's obvious what their interest is in all this. If you were to follow your inspector's recommendation and there were to be a fire would your insurance company honor the claim? I think your man is probably dead out wrong on this (it's a new requirement) and would strongly advise following NEC. He can't flunk you for doing that. I'd check the state code or at least consult an electrician experienced in installing EVSE.

... and is not required to be GFCI."
No becuase that function is required of EVSE.

This is of course specific to my city but highlights the need check your local codes, especially if you're interested in a 48A EVSE to provide the max charge rate your Rivian will support. Of course, the benefits of 48A over 40A EVSE are minimal with overnight charging and NEMA 14-50 receptacles are more commonly found - especially when traveling.
Because it is legal to install a 14-50R on a 40 amp circuit (an exception in the code) most manufacturers limit the current supplied by a 14-50P supplied EVSE to 32 A. The Tesla units (all hardwired) are programmable by the installer to match the circuit on which they are installed. You would have to check on other hard wired EVSE to see how they handle this and also on 14-50P units to see what their available current is. A 40A unit can legally be plugged into a 14-50R as long as it is on a 50A circuit but not if it is on a 40A circuit.

But it's always better to have all the facts and make a well informed decision.
Always. A good place to start is with an electrician who has done these.

It's also important to look into the wiring requirements of the EVSE you are interested in. For example, I found the ChargePoint Home Flex supports 48A charging if hard wired. But I also found that the input terminals only support 6 AWG wiring. Per my inspector, this would preclude the use of 6 AWG NM cable (Romex) as it is only rated for 55A but could be hard wired using flexible conduit with 6 AWG type THHN conductors that are rated for 65A.
Romex is low temperature stuff. EVSE is often installed using THHN or THWN in conduit but this is where your experienced electrician comes in.
 
Last edited:
Top