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Pebble Flow Electric Camper - Competition for Lightship RV

Rosie the Rivian

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Looks like it will come with LFP batteries vs Lithium Ion. What does everyone think about that? I am wondering if 45kwh will be enough to provide trailer propulsion for a 300 mile run between charging.
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clockwork crane

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Looks like it will come with LFP batteries vs Lithium Ion. What does everyone think about that? I am wondering if 45kwh will be enough to provide trailer propulsion for a 300 mile run between charging.
I don't see a problem. Volumetric density isn't a big problem since the trailer has a lot of subfloor to work with (though it might be why the waste tanks are combined, to save some underfloor space). Gravimetric density also isn't super important, since it's a trailer anyway; it will just eat up what would otherwise be cargo capacity. Though I'm a bit surprised they are using a heavier battery and also only have a single axle.

Keep in mind that the motor in the trailer can be smaller and more efficient than a typical EV motor since it doesn't need to produce a lot of instantaneous power. It's the tow vehicle's job to accelerate; the trailer only has to nudge a bit to maintain speed.

I think the actual range hit will depend a lot on aero and route, and a little on the choice of tow vehicle. I trust the Lightship to handle aero better since its frontal area is lower. I'm really excited to see some actual real-world testing numbers from both the Pebble Flow and the Lightship.
 

Rosie the Rivian

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I don't see a problem. Volumetric density isn't a big problem since the trailer has a lot of subfloor to work with (though it might be why the waste tanks are combined, to save some underfloor space). Gravimetric density also isn't super important, since it's a trailer anyway; it will just eat up what would otherwise be cargo capacity. Though I'm a bit surprised they are using a heavier battery and also only have a single axle.

Keep in mind that the motor in the trailer can be smaller and more efficient than a typical EV motor since it doesn't need to produce a lot of instantaneous power. It's the tow vehicle's job to accelerate; the trailer only has to nudge a bit to maintain speed.

I think the actual range hit will depend a lot on aero and route, and a little on the choice of tow vehicle. I trust the Lightship to handle aero better since its frontal area is lower. I'm really excited to see some actual real-world testing numbers from both the Pebble Flow and the Lightship.
Thank you for the input and I agree I can't wait to see actual some test numbers.
 

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For those interested, the production intent model of the Pebble Flow gets shown today at 9 am Pacific.

 

MasterofWilford

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For those interested, the production intent model of the Pebble Flow gets shown today at 9 am Pacific.

Pebble Flow for me.
  1. Top trim with all accessories is 100K CHEAPER than the top trim of the Lightship.
  2. 1,000-1,500 pounds lighter
  3. IMO, a better and more functional layout thanks to the Murphy bed. Sleeping areas are on opposite ends creating more privacy
  4. Magic Tow hitch? Game changer for many and huge benefit for the novice
  5. Remote control movement — charging at an EV station sounds much more easier, backing out of tight spaces fully independently of your vehicle…
  6. Recharge mode for Gas Vehicles…charging the PF while in motion
 

Mikevbf

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Pebble Flow for me.
  1. Top trim with all accessories is 100K CHEAPER than the top trim of the Lightship.
  2. 1,000-1,500 pounds lighter
  3. IMO, a better and more functional layout thanks to the Murphy bed. Sleeping areas are on opposite ends creating more privacy
  4. Magic Tow hitch? Game changer for many and huge benefit for the novice
  5. Remote control movement — charging at an EV station sounds much more easier, backing out of tight spaces fully independently of your vehicle…
  6. Recharge mode for Gas Vehicles…charging the PF while in motion
7. Pebble is 25 feet which I believe is a cutoff for some camping spaces. The Lightship is over 26 feet long.
8. Lightship has two axels which might make it more difficult to maneuver.
9. Outside Privacy Glass becomes opaque at the touch of a button
10. Comes with a Canopy and stove can move from inside to outside making the Pebble more focused on the outside dining expereince.

Pros of the Lightship over the Pebble:
1. more than 1 foot more headroom in camp mode
2. Setup to charge on Tesla Supercharger network, not sure the Pebble is able to even with an adapter
3. I believe there is less impact on the range of the vehicle when towing the Lightship which has a 77 kWh battery vs Pebble's 44 kWh battery
4. Lightship has 1.8 kW solar vs. 1.1 kW on Pebble
5. Lightship has 50 gallon fresh water and 30 gallon black water tank vs Pebble's 40 and 13.
6. Lightship has a dishwasher
7. It seemed from various YouTubes Lightship had a super nice hangout area in the tip and the larger bed had sky lights where Pebble had skylights over the smaller bed.

Because I have never owned or even rented a camper before I am not sure how important some of these differences are. Given the size of the investment, I am personally going to rent a nice camper first to make sure that it is something I like and also actually try and go inside each to really feel the differences in space. I have not seen any YouTubes where someone has actually been in both and comments on how they feel different. One advantage of buying one of the more expensive founder additions of either of the campers is you could probably make a lot of money back renting it out at a premium for the first year to people like me who want to understand it better before buying.
 

clockwork crane

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Because I have never owned or even rented a camper before I am not sure how important some of these differences are. Given the size of the investment, I am personally going to rent a nice camper first to make sure that it is something I like and also actually try and go inside each to really feel the differences in space.
Yes, definitely do this. I did the same thing when I was shopping for a camper and it was really helpful. I had some ideas on paper about which ones were better or worse, but taking one out for a night or a weekend made a big difference. I had a bad experience in my first pick (Sol Horizon) and a great one in my second pick (Airstream Basecamp) and that made the decision a lot easier. Evaluating sleeping space comfort and walking paths in particular is really hard to do without hands-on experience.

Outdoorsy is a good resource for camper rentals, and since they are usually by-owner rentals you can often sit down and chat with the owner about their experiences as well.

Pros of the Lightship over the Pebble:
1. more than 1 foot more headroom in camp mode
2. Setup to charge on Tesla Supercharger network, not sure the Pebble is able to even with an adapter
3. I believe there is less impact on the range of the vehicle when towing the Lightship which has a 77 kWh battery vs Pebble's 44 kWh battery
4. Lightship has 1.8 kW solar vs. 1.1 kW on Pebble
5. Lightship has 50 gallon fresh water and 30 gallon black water tank vs Pebble's 40 and 13.
6. Lightship has a dishwasher
7. It seemed from various YouTubes Lightship had a super nice hangout area in the tip and the larger bed had sky lights where Pebble had skylights over the smaller bed.
2. The Pebble Flow has a CCS connector, but the designer mentions in at least one video that he expects charging on NACS with an adapter to work. And Pebble is switching to a NACS inlet eventually.

3. A lot of the range improvement with the Lightship comes from the reduced frontal area. With the bigger battery as well, the Lightship wins twice. So it may be better suited to situations where you're going further away from established charging networks. I think the Pebble will still be totally fine, but it's only going to increase your max radius from a charger by 50-60 miles or so. Pebble is a terrific fit for parks that have RAN coverage, like Joshua Tree, Yellowstone, and others soon.

7. From some experience with a camper, I'll point out one downside, and it's the main reason I decided against a Lightship: it will be harder to maneuver in the Lightship when the bed is set up, since the fully deployed bed encroaches on both the entryway space and the dinette space. In the Pebble the rear bed can be set up all the time without disrupting the front dinette or any walking paths. It's the big tradeoff (along with the +2ft length) for the Lightship's ability to go into road mode: more space in the floorplan is dedicated to storage because you can't have overhead cabinets.
 

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7. Pebble is 25 feet which I believe is a cutoff for some camping spaces. The Lightship is over 26 feet long.
8. Lightship has two axels which might make it more difficult to maneuver.
9. Outside Privacy Glass becomes opaque at the touch of a button
10. Comes with a Canopy and stove can move from inside to outside making the Pebble more focused on the outside dining expereince.

Pros of the Lightship over the Pebble:
1. more than 1 foot more headroom in camp mode
2. Setup to charge on Tesla Supercharger network, not sure the Pebble is able to even with an adapter
3. I believe there is less impact on the range of the vehicle when towing the Lightship which has a 77 kWh battery vs Pebble's 44 kWh battery
4. Lightship has 1.8 kW solar vs. 1.1 kW on Pebble
5. Lightship has 50 gallon fresh water and 30 gallon black water tank vs Pebble's 40 and 13.
6. Lightship has a dishwasher
7. It seemed from various YouTubes Lightship had a super nice hangout area in the tip and the larger bed had sky lights where Pebble had skylights over the smaller bed.

Because I have never owned or even rented a camper before I am not sure how important some of these differences are. Given the size of the investment, I am personally going to rent a nice camper first to make sure that it is something I like and also actually try and go inside each to really feel the differences in space. I have not seen any YouTubes where someone has actually been in both and comments on how they feel different. One advantage of buying one of the more expensive founder additions of either of the campers is you could probably make a lot of money back renting it out at a premium for the first year to people like me who want to understand it better before buying.
I would love to check it out if you do end up renting one at some point Michael. I have a reservation down and my dream scenario is to use it as a niche three season airbnb in our upper field and have it pay off itself when we are not using it.

John
 

DrBad

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I'll wait for the eStream. 22' is the optimum length for my use and ease of towing. Pebble and LS look interesting and I would consider them after they've been out for a while and if they make something in the 22' range or an "off-road" type version.
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