PC MAG: Rivian, Tesla, and Ford are embracing LFP batteries...customers aren't told which type they're getting

[Count Orlok]

In November, Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe told(Opens in a new window) the Wall Street Journal that it's "quite bullish on LFP," which the company uses in its standard range models. Rivian reported significant financial losses in Q3 2022, making cost-effective LFP an attractive option. It declined to comment when asked about the potential performance drawbacks of LFPs in cold weather.

Rivian, Tesla, and Ford are embracing LFP batteries, which are cheap and abundant but offer lackluster range in cold weather. And customers generally aren't told which type they're getting.

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[s00n]

So is there a way to tell if your battery is NCM or LFP? Article mentions you can find it in settings, but I think that was for Tesla.

 

[W1SE]

So is there a way to tell if your battery is NCM or LFP? Article mentions you can find it in settings, but I think that was for Tesla.

See link, original vehicles all made with more dense NCM battery but standard range will go to LFP in future.

Rivian will switch to LFP in future standard range

 

[COdogman]

See link, original vehicles all made with more dense NCM battery but standard range will go to LFP in future.

Rivian will switch to LFP in future standard range

That quote is from 2021! Are they possibly already doing this?

 

[electruck]

That quote is from 2021! Are they possibly already doing this?

Speaking without hard facts here but almost certainly a no. With LFP they likely can only meet Standard range target in the available space. Large and Max pack variants will likely remain NCM.

I believe they are, however, using LFP in some/all of the Amazon vans.

 

[Arky]

That quote is from 2021! Are they possibly already doing this?

No, it wouldn't be hard to check either, LFP batteries with similar range are about 30% heavier.

They also have poorer cold weather performance, but there are advantages too. They're safer, less susceptible to thermal runaway, and have extremely high cycle life even when stored at high charge levels.

 

[DuoRivians]

No Rivian vehicles, including EDVs, have LFP pack, as of end of 2022. Q1 2023 is supposed to be the first time Rivian introduces them via EDVs paired with enduro motors

 

[electruck]

No Rivian vehicles, including EDVs, have LFP pack, as of end of 2022. Q1 2023 is supposed to be the first time Rivian introduces them via EDVs paired with enduro motors

Well, we are over halfway through Q1 2023. If they haven't already started delivering EDVs with an Enduro motor and LFP pack, it will be happening s00n (we all know how that translates). RJ shared a pic of quite a stream of Enduro drive units going down the line at the factory this week.

 

[Jay565]

“If customers have an LFP vehicle, they can regularly charge to 100%. This is a benefit over NCM, which is only recommended to charge to 80-90%, especially for customers in warmer weather, where the cars will retain the extra power more easily.”

So this is important I have the R1S and we should be able to verify which type of battery we have for charging reasons and range estimates in cold weather. Right now it’s speculation Rivian has no LFP batteries produced. I don’t see any document that verifies that.

 

[Autolycus]

“If customers have an LFP vehicle, they can regularly charge to 100%. This is a benefit over NCM, which is only recommended to charge to 80-90%, especially for customers in warmer weather, where the cars will retain the extra power more easily.”

So this is important I have the R1S and we should be able to verify which type of battery we have for charging reasons and range estimates in cold weather. Right now it’s speculation Rivian has no LFP batteries produced. I don’t see any document that verifies that.

No, it's speculation that they might have shifted to LFP. Everything they've said has been extremely clear that LFP will only be used for the "standard" battery. There is no reason at all to suspect that any R1 produced to date might even possibly have anything other than an NMC chemistry battery.

 

[Jay565]

No, it's speculation that they might have shifted to LFP. Everything they've said has been extremely clear that LFP will only be used for the "standard" battery. There is no reason at all to suspect that any R1 produced to date might even possibly have anything other than an NMC chemistry battery.

Ok not sure what do they consider standard battery for thr R1S? It doesn’t have a maxpack option so isn’t the R1S battery just standard? Either way they should add a la Tesla the battery description on the car settings

 

[Autolycus]

Ok not sure what do they consider standard battery for thr R1S? It doesn’t have a maxpack option so isn’t the R1S battery just standard? Either way they should add a la Tesla the battery description on the car settings

"Standard" battery hasn't be manufactured yet for either the R1T or R1S. The sizes/ranges which have been officially announced and allowed for configuration are: Standard (R1T and R1S), Large (R1T and R1S), Max (R1T only so far). The "standard" pack is only allowed with the dual motor configurations at this time.

It's hard to say whether Rivian needs a battery description in the car settings at this point since every R1 made so far has the same battery pack. It will make sense at a later date to have that information displayed somewhere.

 

[SANZC02]

No, it's speculation that they might have shifted to LFP. Everything they've said has been extremely clear that LFP will only be used for the "standard" battery. There is no reason at all to suspect that any R1 produced to date might even possibly have anything other than an NMC chemistry battery.

Agreed and for people in more moderate climates it would be very compelling to look at the small battery as a viable option for day to day driving. The ability to go to 100% and the longer duty cycle for that chemistry matches up really well to the large pack with a daily 70% charge for range.

 

[Autolycus]

Agreed and for people in more moderate climates it would be very compelling to look at the small battery as a viable option for day to day driving. The ability to go to 100% and the longer duty cycle for that chemistry matches up really well to the large pack with a daily 70% charge for range.

For people who don't have the pre-increase pricing, yes.

 

[W1SE]

It’s funny people have a negative thought of LFP. I think 2 different batteries for 2 different targets. They each have pros and cons. Rivian hasn’t started outing them in any R1 yet. We would know. Plus if they did I might like it. I rarely need over 200 miles. It would be nice to have a battery pack only go to 250 but be able to charge 100% every time. That’s what majority of owners do. Especially as the charging infrastructure gets better.

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