Owning the Truck but not the Software

[jollyroger]

To start, this isn't just a Rivian thing, but these agreements we are signing are showing more and more that, although we own the vehicle hardware, we don't own the software. We just license it. Yet the vehicle we own is mostly useless without the corresponding software component.

Now this isn't much different from an buying an iphone, or router (Although I have replaced the factory software in my router with an open source variant). Even a book, although you own the paper, glue and ink. You don't own the content (you can't write a copy of the book and sell it, but you could sell the original book).

I know this is academic, but it appears that the vehicle companies are able to point back to DCMA laws which allows them to limit information that impacts the right to repair laws. Now replacing a half shaft, or suspension component is probably within the realm of a competent mechanic can deal with. But if there is any software adjustment required for a more specific fix, then we get into a situation where we have to go back to Rivian for help.

Now during the warranty period this isn't a huge deal, but I typically plan to keep my vehicles for a long time and rack up the miles. So seeing this called out in the purchase agreement makes me nervous. I guess this is the brave new world we live in, but it feels like the vendors are wining the right to repair laws, short of someone creating an open source version of the R1 software. (Never gonna happen, too much liability for no profit).

Anyway I know this has been happening for a while now and maybe I'm just venting, but it would be refreshing to see a vehicle company release more information regarding how to repair the vehicle so we can choose where we go, post warranty.

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[Dark-Fx]

To start, this isn't just a Rivian thing,

Admin should move this topic here then: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/forums/general-automotive-talk.27/

 

[roberttatefan]

I think your concerns are reasonably well-founded, but I also think you're (perhaps) underestimating the impact of a market opportunity and/or someone taking personal interest in solving a problem. This is to say nothing of the legal matter, just the viability of owning the truck outside of warranty.

Enthusiast vehicles have been hacked/cracked/tricked etc. repeatedly. Even moreso when there's an obvious problem that the ownership community identifies. From ECU remaps, to creative uses of available diagnostic software, to piggyback modules etc. the market is relentless. Admittedly, the software in a Rivian is orders of magnitude more integrated and complex than say a transmission control module, but I'd be stunned if we don't see the aftermarket chip their way towards modifying Rivian software.

So I guess it really depends on the affected systems and what we're looking to resolve. While the software itself likely has a significant barrier to entry, that software is reliant on inputs, which are often easier to reverse engineer. To vastly oversimplify, brake pad sensors are simply a continuity test. It didn't take folks long to simply install aftermarket pads (without a sensor) and short those wires together to make the computer happy. Even significantly more complex sensors can likely be duped as it's simply not economically viable to build in effective deterrents.

I'm not saying this will be easy, but I'm less moderately less dystopian on the matter.

 

[jollyroger]

You mention some things I haven't thought of. And of course, adventure vehicles are prime candidates for modifications. I do hope you are right. Of course we need a lot more R1's on the road for folks to make the effort to supply after market goodies to implement.

 

[Count Orlok]

IMHO Rivian is very upfront and more transparent than other auto manufacturers that I have first hand experience with in recent years.

 

[staytuned]

You mention some things I haven't thought of. And of course, adventure vehicles are prime candidates for modifications. I do hope you are right. Of course we need a lot more R1's on the road for folks to make the effort to supply after market goodies to implement.

This was actually one of the value propositions for me when buying an R1.

Even without the software, it’s a very capable platform that’s worth modifying - someone will do it, regardless of how Rivian treats us.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

This has been a thing since ECU's in cars starting allowing the ability for manufacturers to lock it down. Tons of vehicles try to block their OBD ports from working with any scan tool not at their manufacturer's dealer network and shortly after it's cracked and winds up working with everyone else. Most performance cars have after market companies that can reflash ECUs and remap engines. The more they are locked down from the factory the more it seems people want to crack them.

Sure Rivian might own Rivian software, but they have to keep the core functions intact or they will be sued. Apple has locked down their phones for years but that doesn't stop people from jailbreaking them and the jailbreak for a new software patch is usually out within a week or two. Where there's a will there's a way and it's not something I personally worry about.

 

[racekarl]

MA’s right to repair law covers this “connected car” scenario and I imagine other states will follow suit over time. John Deere just relented and allowed independent access To their vehicles software, so market pressure to not lock things down is working.

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