OutofSpec Kyle Gets His R1T - Rivian Factory Delivery Video

[SeaGeo]

To be honest though, even that is emblematic of what I'm talking about. Instead of clearly outlining the exact route map and environmental variables such as elevation, wind, and temperature/rain to a lesser degree, they are basically glossed over footnotes on the test.

While you're shitting on the testing scheme he and Tom do, is there another testing scheme you've found that meets your expectations? Edmunds is all over the place running a mixed driving style. MT doesn't even known what a range test is.

Your idea would be great, except it would be terribly controlled unless it involves automatically pulling the data from the car and providing contextual information associated with every single drive.

What reviews do you prefer? You've criticized Kyle and being a low quality ramble channel. What's Doug? He gets shit wrong all the time. TFL acts like an advertising channel for GM half the time. MT had plenty wrong on the R1T, and their "reviews" were about as close to paid advertising for Rivian as you can get. Do you prefer Bjorn's tests in Norway?

I agree that Kyle's adjustment for the Lightning wasn't perfect. He's also transparent about it, and has in the past had to drop a test like you suggested. That being said, overall that specific event is a really small % adjustment to the truck's tested range. Generally speaking when he and Tom are able to both test the same vehicle they get very similar results. The R1T is an example where it didn't, which the think is because of the weather. Tom's R1T test was only run in that weather because he ran out of time with the loaner he got from Rivian, but it provides a useful data point.

Given the disproportionate size of his outlet (staffing, access to vehicles etc.) relative to views and actual subscribers, I'm starting to think that he's being bankrolled by Magna to a heavy degree to prop up a marketing scheme that masquerades as a review site.

To be blunt, your theories on this are becoming petty. why weren't you voicing these during the original review?

Kyle's channel has been doing similar reviews long before Magna as @Blaine noted. He's been hard on specific cars ranging from Mazda to Mercedes, and has given pretty blunt feedback about vehicles directly to manufacturers. An example of one that had he had very mixed thoughts on was rhe Solterra.

Prior to magna they had other smaller sponsor's at times on YT. He's also pretty consistently talked about what he will and won't do when it comes to taking funds. Generally speaking, he won't take direct funds from manufacturers. blain

If you want, you could always subscribe to their patreon page to help offset the need for a sponsor. Do you do that? Or do you pay independent sites for their services, or make them rely on ads? How would you like independent reviewers to make money anymore? Publish a magazine? You mentioned CR, they get donations from a foundation that's tied to the auto industry. Is CR corrupt?

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[SASSquatch]

@RWerksman you are spot on. Occasionally, I will get value from watching a video, like the one of his road trip from Fort Collins to PHX in the Rivian. The video showed a real world result of an actual drive in normal highway conditions. For instance, since I live in Denver it was beneficial for me to see that if I keep the speed at the 75mph speed limit I can make the 240 mile drive from Denver to Grand Junction without stopping. That is great real world data that has an application since it is a road I drive frequently.

Also, it you charge up enough in Bluff, UT and keep the speed under control you can make the 235 mile drive to Flagstaff, AZ through Monument Valley. Seeing the real world driving capabilities on a road that I like to take is good stuff.

That being said, good on Kyle for the business he has built. He is making a good living doing what he loves - a lot of people cannot say that. I, for one, hope he continues to make the occasional interesting video of actual road trips in actual driving conditions, and not ones like the BMW iX review he did driving around Vegas. That one was painful.

And, I hope he becomes a little less sensitive. Sure there are loads of internet crazies out there, but don't delete comments on your work that are critical, but make sense.

Agreed! And to be fair, we really don't know who deleted those posts.

I don't think anyone here wishes ill will towards Kyle and if you take a measured view of all of this he/his associates/whomever can take the constructive criticism and use it to improve his content/approach.

 

[AdamUCF]

Where's the outrage? There isn't any outrage in any of my posts - stop gaslighting.

All of us are speculating based on the information we have. Not sure why you feel the need to be so sensitive towards even perceived criticism towards someone - presumably - you have no association with.

Lmao excuse me for mistaking the many paragraphs you've written in this thread across numerous posts as outrage. Oh and randomly bringing it up in other threads too, totally no outrage. If you're not outraged then you should probably stop posting incessantly about how you disapprove of Kyle's actions.

"presumably"

 

[SASSquatch]

While you're shitting on the testing scheme he and Tom do, is there another testing scheme you've found that meets your expectations? Edmunds is all over the place running a mixed driving style. MT doesn't even known what a range test is.

Your idea would be great, except it would be terribly controlled unless it involves automatically pulling the data from the car and providing contextual information associated with every single drive.

What reviews do you prefer? You've criticized Kyle and being a low quality ramble channel. What's Doug? He gets shit wrong all the time. TFL acts like an advertising channel for GM half the time. MT had plenty wrong on the R1T, and their "reviews" were about as close to paid advertising for Rivian as you can get. Do you prefer Bjorn's tests in Norway?

I agree that Kyle's adjustment for the Lightning wasn't perfect. He's also transparent about it, and has in the past had to drop a test like you suggested. That being said, overall that specific event is a really small % adjustment to the truck's tested range. Generally speaking when he and Tom are able to both test the same vehicle they get very similar results. The R1T is an example where it didn't, which the think is because of the weather. Tom's R1T test was only run in that weather because he ran out of time with the loaner he got from Rivian, but it provides a useful data point.



To be blunt, your theories on this are becoming petty. why weren't you voicing these during the original review?

Kyle's channel has been doing similar reviews long before Magna as @Blaine noted. He's been hard on specific cars ranging from Mazda to Mercedes, and has given pretty blunt feedback about vehicles directly to manufacturers. An example of one that had he had very mixed thoughts on was rhe Solterra.

Prior to magna they had other smaller sponsor's at times on YT. He's also pretty consistently talked about what he will and won't do when it comes to taking funds. Generally speaking, he won't take direct funds from manufacturers. blain

If you want, you could always subscribe to their patreon page to help offset the need for a sponsor. Do you do that? Or do you pay independent sites for their services, or make them rely on ads? How would you like independent reviewers to make money anymore? Publish a magazine? You mentioned CR, they get donations from a foundation that's tied to the auto industry. Is CR corrupt?

While you're shitting on the testing scheme he and Tom do, is there another testing scheme you've found that meets your expectations? Edmunds is all over the place running a mixed driving style. MT doesn't even known what a range test is.

Your idea would be great, except it would be terribly controlled unless it involves automatically pulling the data from the car and providing contextual information associated with every single drive.

What reviews do you prefer? You've criticized Kyle and being a low quality ramble channel. What's Doug? He gets shit wrong all the time. TFL acts like an advertising channel for GM half the time. MT had plenty wrong on the R1T, and their "reviews" were about as close to paid advertising for Rivian as you can get. Do you prefer Bjorn's tests in Norway?

I agree that Kyle's adjustment for the Lightning wasn't perfect. He's also transparent about it, and has in the past had to drop a test like you suggested. That being said, overall that specific event is a really small % adjustment to the truck's tested range. Generally speaking when he and Tom are able to both test the same vehicle they get very similar results. The R1T is an example where it didn't, which the think is because of the weather. Tom's R1T test was only run in that weather because he ran out of time with the loaner he got from Rivian, but it provides a useful data point.



To be blunt, your theories on this are becoming petty. why weren't you voicing these during the original review?

Kyle's channel has been doing similar reviews long before Magna as @Blaine noted. He's been hard on specific cars ranging from Mazda to Mercedes, and has given pretty blunt feedback about vehicles directly to manufacturers. An example of one that had he had very mixed thoughts on was rhe Solterra.

Prior to magna they had other smaller sponsor's at times on YT. He's also pretty consistently talked about what he will and won't do when it comes to taking funds. Generally speaking, he won't take direct funds from manufacturers. blain

If you want, you could always subscribe to their patreon page to help offset the need for a sponsor. Do you do that? Or do you pay independent sites for their services, or make them rely on ads? How would you like independent reviewers to make money anymore? Publish a magazine? You mentioned CR, they get donations from a foundation that's tied to the auto industry. Is CR corrupt?

I have a theory and you have a theory, in the absence of transparency - it is exactly that.

But - to your point - I have spent WAY too much time in this thread - in part because I was baited into a back and forth by someone clearly shilling for Kyle and it is approaching pettiness even though it wasn't intended to be.

 

[SASSquatch]

Lmao excuse me for mistaking the many paragraphs you've written in this thread across numerous posts as outrage. Oh and randomly bringing it up in other threads too, totally no outrage. If you're not outraged then you should probably stop posting incessantly about how you disapprove of Kyle's actions.

"presumably"

Discussion doesn't equal outrage - but to your point - we have beaten this horse long enough and it is time to move on.

 

[Davethadog]

Discussion doesn't equal outrage - but to your point - we have beaten this horse long enough and it is time to move on.

This thread is 21 long. My father used to call topics like this “horse pulp,” a phrase I understand now.

 

[RWerksman]

While you're shitting on the testing scheme he and Tom do, is there another testing scheme you've found that meets your expectations? Edmunds is all over the place running a mixed driving style. MT doesn't even known what a range test is.

I'm not shitting on it, I'm just calling it what it is. It's an imprecise test, likely by choice as the goal appears to be maintaining a cadence of videos rather than increasing the quality and the data inside them. By nature, they have to be low-effort and a bit sloppy otherwise they take too much time and will blow through the deadline. Kyle has chosen this approach, and I wish him the best with it.

What reviews do you prefer? You've criticized Kyle and being a low quality ramble channel. What's Doug? He gets shit wrong all the time. TFL acts like an advertising channel for GM half the time. MT had plenty wrong on the R1T, and their "reviews" were about as close to paid advertising for Rivian as you can get. Do you prefer Bjorn's tests in Norway?

I will not watch Doug of TFL. Bjorn's videos are fine. Alex on Autos is a good example of channel producing highly structured, data driven automotive content.


To reiterate though - verbatim - I'm thankful that Kyle produces these videos. I watch them. I take everything in them with a grain of salt though, and I would suggest that everyone does for the reasons that I posted earlier. My take on it is my own, and yours may vary.

In regard to the situation, it has zero impact on me, and thinking about it now, it really hasn't changed my opinion at all about Rivian or Kyle. The whole situation seems to be pretty much on brand for both of them, or at least close enough where it didn't surprise me at all.

 

[Blaine]

Hello forum member who joined less than a week ago and who is again posting only in defense of Kyle. Welcome to the forum!

Demonstrably false.

I joined this forum (6/7) BEFORE this thread even existed (6/9).

AND I didn't post in this thread until it had been going for 3 days.

AND I have 15 posts and only the most recent 3 are in this thread.

You are either just straight-up lying or you're making false implications without taking literally 5 seconds to check my post history.

Speculation isn't an accusation. Please use your words carefully.

So, for instance, I shouldn't say "you're only posting in defense of Kyle" if most of your posts were about other topics or suggest you're a plant when you were here before the thread existed? Would that be a good example of choosing my words carefully?

Kyle could easily dispel any speculation by providing a disclaimer like other reviewers provide describing their financial relationship - especially when that single sponsor (this is not speculation - it is factual based on who is identified in his content) is linked to the auto industry and now RIVIAN.

They're very openly sponsoring his videos. It's not like it's standard to get a bunch of details describing a Youtuber's financial relationship with their sponsor. He's also provided constructive criticism to Rivian on things that should be improved... including today. That's literally what made him popular on here, but now you're "speculating" that he might secretly be a Magna employee. Nonsense.

Also, how do you know so much about Kyle's back story including before he even had a channel or was known?

I don't know his backstory beyond cars. We have just crossed paths for years in the car community, mostly online. We both were pretty involved in the MINI Cooper community ~10 years ago, then both owned and road-tripped BMW i3s, both owned Model 3s, etc.

 

[R1Sky Business]

Is the dead???? Or should I look for a new bat?

 

[SASSquatch]

Demonstrably false.

I joined this forum (6/7) BEFORE this thread even existed (6/9).

AND I didn't post in this thread until it had been going for 3 days.

AND I have 15 posts and only the most recent 3 are in this thread.

You are either just straight-up lying or you're making false implications without taking literally 5 seconds to check my post history.




So, for instance, I shouldn't say "you're only posting in defense of Kyle" if most of your posts were about other topics or suggest you're a plant when you were here before the thread existed? Would that be a good example of choosing my words carefully?



They're very openly sponsoring his videos. It's not like it's standard to get a bunch of details describing a Youtuber's financial relationship with their sponsor. He's also provided constructive criticism to Rivian on things that should be improved... including today. That's literally what made him popular on here, but now you're "speculating" that he might secretly be a Magna employee. Nonsense.



I don't know his backstory beyond cars. We have just crossed paths for years in the car community, mostly online. We both were pretty involved in the MINI Cooper community ~10 years ago, then both owned and road-tripped BMW i3s, both owned Model 3s, etc.

+1 For being an i3s road-tripper. Best designed city EV ever.

 

[SeaGeo]

I'm not shitting on it, I'm just calling it what it is. It's an imprecise test, likely by choice as the goal appears to be maintaining a cadence of videos rather than increasing the quality and the data inside them. By nature, they have to be low-effort and a bit sloppy otherwise they take too much time and will blow through the deadline. Kyle has chosen this approach, and I wish him the best with it.


I will not watch Doug of TFL. Bjorn's videos are fine. Alex on Autos is a good example of channel producing highly structured, data driven automotive content.


To reiterate though - verbatim - I'm thankful that Kyle produces these videos. I watch them. I take everything in them with a grain of salt though, and I would suggest that everyone does for the reasons that I posted earlier. My take on it is my own, and yours may vary.

In regard to the situation, it has zero impact on me, and thinking about it now, it really hasn't changed my opinion at all about Rivian or Kyle. The whole situation seems to be pretty much on brand for both of them, or at least close enough where it didn't surprise me at all.

You're right, I should have said over critical and not shitting on. My apologies.

I agree, AA is quite good as a reviewer. I personally prefer Kyle's range testing over his, but they're both good data points imo.

Really, what I was trying to get at (which is along the same lines as your point) is there isn't a perfect test and people and organizations have to do what they can with the resources they have. Short of being instrumented on a closed track that's indoors and straight for 1,000 miles the test methodology that Kyle and Tom do is generally pretty damn consistent for a test on public roads.

 

[SASSquatch]

You're right, I should have said over critical and not shitting on. My apologies.

I agree, AA is quite good as a reviewer. I personally prefer Kyle's range testing over his, but they're both good data points imo.

Really, what I was trying to get at (which is along the same lines as your point) is there isn't a perfect test and people and organizations have to do what they can with the resources they have. Short of being instrumented on a closed track that's indoors and straight for 1,000 miles the test methodology that Kyle and Tom do is generally pretty damn consistent for a test on public roads.

+1 on AA. Personally, my favorite reviewer.

 

[Blaine]

+1 For being an i3s road-tripper. Best designed city EV ever.

We can agree on that. Had 3 different ones. Wish I still had one, but Carvana made us an offer we couldn't refuse when I was WFH, and the plastic motor support was creaking occasionally and BMW wouldn't replace it with the aluminum one.

 

[SASSquatch]

We can agree on that. Had 3 different ones. Wish I still had one, but Carvana made us an offer we couldn't refuse when I was WFH, and the plastic motor support was creaking occasionally and BMW wouldn't replace it with the aluminum one.

That stupid plastic motor support is the only thing I hate about the i3.

On my 3rd i3 - second i3s. It will have to go when the R1T comes but it will be a very sad day.

 

[RWerksman]

I agree, AA is quite good as a reviewer. I personally prefer Kyle's range testing over his, but they're both good data points imo.

I think you're stating that Kyle's test is more meaningful, and if so, I agree. Generally, the situation that you would need max range from an EV is when you're traveling long distances. Long distances are normally covered by a lengthy highway drive at a fairly steady speed. 70 mph is a good indication of that. Additionally, their broad testing is beneficial as well as it somewhat promotes comparing and contrasting.

My over critical analysis of his testing (and Tom's too) basically boils down to them not providing enough data and being lax on their normalization of the procedure. It's fine, but it could be better, especially when doing these tests and producing these videos is what is done for a living. I also tend to be a bit of a perfectionist though, and that may be shining through...

Really, what I was trying to get at (which is along the same lines as your point) is there isn't a perfect test and people and organizations have to do what they can with the resources they have. Short of being instrumented on a closed track that's indoors and straight for 1,000 miles the test methodology that Kyle and Tom do is generally pretty damn consistent for a test on public roads.

I'm hopeful that someone will rise to the occasion and start producing content with more thoughtfulness and controls. I'd really like to see an RTINGS or Hardware Unboxed approach to automotive journalism and video production.

At the end of the day, Kyle and Tom are fine, as long as you know what you're getting into.

This is a good discussion that is making me re-evaluate my take on the situation. Thanks.

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