Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

[NY_Rob]

What will his theme be when he starts driving electric cars with moderns traction and stability control?

Can’t very well “rev up your engines” with an EV.

wait….does he even do that anymore in the beginning of his videos?

Yup, he still opens with “rev up your engines”!

I love his titles, they generally have nothing to do with the content of his videos most times or they're way just over the top exaggerations of some minor issue. He had a new video the other day about someone who put new tires on his SUV and they were a little noisy. The title of his video was something line "these tires destroyed this customer's car" meanwhile it still drove fine, didn't "destroy" anything, the new tires were just a little noisy. I lost count of how many time he's said "goodbye old friends, I'm done" then the next day he has more new videos posted

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[greyboundary]

From https://riviantrackr.com/news/whats-coming-in-2024-47-holiday-update/:

• Faster DC fast charging for vehicles with Large and Max battery packs.

 

[aAlpine]

All the fanboy whiners that couldn't take some criticism have an apology to make

Kyle, please complain about your gen 1 some more. I'd love for some charging improvements there too! (Though I will say I'm actually impressed how great Rivian has been on keeping gen 1 features coming)

 

[Donald Stanfield]

All the fanboy whiners that couldn't take some criticism have an apology to make

Kyle, please complain about your gen 1 some more. I'd love for some charging improvements there too! (Though I will say I'm actually impressed how great Rivian has been on keeping gen 1 features coming)

The whiners are the ones crying about the charging curve when it wasn't really an issue before.

 

[DayTripping]

I've charged my Rivian one time at an SC. TBH, I didn't think the charging curve was terrible at the time. It felt sort of similar to the charging curve on my Model 3 Long Range but worse than Model S Plaid. So I did some research. The more I thought about it, the worse it seemed. The charging isn't very linear with a lot of stair steps. With Tesla they taper off more smoothly.

Here is the curve for G1 quad large pack.

Here is a curve for Tesla Model 3 LR

Here is for the Tesla Model S Plaid

Both Teslas at least hit a 250kW peak. The R1T never does. I saw the graphs for the max pack, and it isn't better. The 3 has fairly similar charging performance as the R1T but in actuality, it is better performance because the pack is smaller. The Plaid is significantly better at all charge levels, while still being a smaller pack than the R1T large. When you put this in everyday terms, on a trip, you will spend a lot more time charging with since the efficiency is far worse than an EV sedan like the Tesla and the charge performance is worse. It is a double whammy.

This last link might be helpful for those that haven't seen it. They show the range at different speeds for all the cars they have. For most cars, they have the impact of heating such as for a perf dual motor max pack, which I list below.

https://evkx.net/models/rivian/r1/r1t_quad-motor_awd/rangeandconsumption/
https://evkx.net/models/rivian/r1/r1s_performance_dual-motor_awd_mp/rangeandconsumption/

 

[greyboundary]

I purely think about it in terms of charge time to added driving time: “what do I get for a 15, 30 or 45min stop?”

Personally I’ve felt that graphs don’t really map well to real world road trip experience.

 

[DayTripping]

That it is a good approach but it isn't that simple either. When you look at the charging curves, you get more energy for a 15 min stop if at a lower SoC (state of charge) than a higher one. Obviously the more efficient the vehicle, the more range you'll get. I don't think enough people think about that.

What still surprises me is none of the Rivians hit 250, even when at low SoC's. All the Teslas at least do for some time. Well all the Teslas except for the 60kWh packs (CATL LFP). Seems like Rivian is leaving some charging on the table unless their thermal management is that bad that it can't handle it. If so, it seems like a massive miss.

Here is the charging curve for a Cybertruck.

The Cybertruck crushes the Rivian in average charge rate. The average rate of charge from 0-100% is 93.9kW and for the Rivian with the large pack, it is 70.5%. The Rivian does better if not going from 0-100%. It is at the lower charge levels with the CT beats the R1T for charge rate, even with the smaller pack.

 

[Ziggy]

From https://riviantrackr.com/news/whats-coming-in-2024-47-holiday-update/:

• Faster DC fast charging for vehicles with Large and Max battery packs.

Any charging performance tests posted yet? Not seeing any new content from OOS etc.

 

[RivianMatt]

Any charging performance tests posted yet? Not seeing any new content from OOS etc.

Only anecdotally. I upgraded to 2024.47 on Wednesday, and one of the first things I wanted to do was to test out the improved charging speed for my Gen 2 Max R1S (even before Kyle's test, I had noticed that my Gen 2 was charging noticeably slower at DC fast chargers than was Gen 1). The nearest RAN is 15 miles from my home. I pulled out of my garage with a cold battery last evening in about 50 degrees temps, mapped to the RAN solely to signal to my Rivian to precondition the battery, and drove about 30 minutes to the RAN. I plugged in to 1a, with both 1b and 1c being unoccupied and only one other Rivian charging at one of the 2’s. I was pretty disappointed in the speeds I was getting. Started at 45%. From there to about 75%, the max I got was 130 kWh, but that was only briefly. I’d say the average was right around 100 kWh. Hoping that I simply wasn’t charging in ideal conditions last night, with my battery not appropriately preconditioned.

 

[ElGuano]

I thought I read a clarification somewhere that the "improved charging speed" was only in very cold conditions? So maybe not a bump to the max charge curve?

 

[cwang089]

I took my gen2 R1S DM LFP on my first road trip to Vegas.
at 5% max charge rate 150.31kW DC max rate at RAN Vegas 70 degrees. This is unacceptable

at 15%, max charge rate was 175kw at EA

at 25% max charge rate 150.15kW DC max rate at RAN Barstow

at 55% max charge was 92kw at EA

This may be okay for some, but coming from Tesla..this is bad. Worse if you are coming from higher voltage EVs. For being big trucks, Rivian needs to charge WAY faster. I'm not sure if its possible on our current hardware.

 

[DayTripping]

Honestly, this is not what you want to hear, but this isn't that unexpected. I will be the last person to defend Rivian on this but if you have the LFP pack, it typically is smaller than the NMC one. On many cars running them, the charge rate is slower. See below for a Tesla with an LFP pack. Tesla maxes at 170kW. I think Rivian only claims 200kW and that could be at 1%.

Based on what you wrote, it seems very similar to the Tesla Model 3 with LFP pack I've referenced below. It is one of the reasons I never wanted an LFP pack. It makes a great "commuter" pack for most people and better tolerant of higher temps.

https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_3/model_3_gen1/chargingcurve/

 

[cwang089]

I disagree..the LFP should be able to hold higher for longer and at least hold ~200 to 40%. Kyle from OOS also mentioned that it would probably be the better road tripper with the better potential curve. I had a gen 1 R1S Quad but didn't really road trip it because it charges poorly. At the time i had an X Plaid which is 2x more efficient and charges faster. I no longer have the X so the R1S now has to run roadtrip duty but compared to Tesla..it was a PITA.

On the way to Vegas there are some key superchargers that aren't open to Rivian. Baker and Primm.

This means Rivian trip planner asks you to charge a LFP to 100% at Barstow RAN. This is ridiculous waste of time as the last 10% takes like 25+ mins. But without that 10% you won't make Vegas. I tried to do 60 mph and drafting trucks but it said my expected range dropped from 20 to 0. So something is wrong with its calculations..if anything it should've gone up. Given it is LFP I had to make sure there was more than 0 mile buffer so I stopped at EA at Primm which was packed at 9PM.

In the end, it doesn't impact me that much because 99% of my use 200 miles is sufficient for the day. But I would say it more than triples my charging or looking for charger time compared to a Model X refresh. Keys being it is half as efficient and charges at half the speed and has fewer charger access.

 

[DayTripping]

RIvian only rates the LFP pack at a max of 200 and the NMC at 220. Here is another test where was briefly at 200 and dropped off quickly. So while OP's seems worse than others it doesn't seem that far out of line other than initial charge rate. Don't know if OP's pack was up to temp. Smaller packs can't typically maintain a high rate of charge for as long as well.

The following link captures an OOS viewer's results. Without knowing all the conditions for both charging sessions,

• 26 to 30 percent SoC – 195 kW;
• 31 to 35 percent SoC – 178 kW;
• 36 to 40 percent SoC – 162 kW;
• 41 to 46 percent SoC – 144 kW;
• 47 to 52 percent SoC – 128 kW;
• 53 to 57 percent SoC – 112 kW;
• 58 to 63 percent SoC – 95 kW;
• 64 to 68 percent SoC – 84 kW;
• 69 to 74 percent SoC – 73 kW;
• 75 to 80 percent SoC – 52 kW;
• 81 to 86 percent SoC – 44 kW;
• 87 to 100 percent SoC – 30 kW.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-gets-tested-at-a-dc-fast-charger-236803.html

 

[mkhuffman]

RIvian only rates the LFP pack at a max of 200 and the NMC at 220. Here is another test where was briefly at 200 and dropped off quickly. So while OP's seems worse than others it doesn't seem that far out of line other than initial charge rate. Don't know if OP's pack was up to temp. Smaller packs can't typically maintain a high rate of charge for as long as well.

The following link captures an OOS viewer's results. Without knowing all the conditions for both charging sessions,

• 26 to 30 percent SoC – 195 kW;
• 31 to 35 percent SoC – 178 kW;
• 36 to 40 percent SoC – 162 kW;
• 41 to 46 percent SoC – 144 kW;
• 47 to 52 percent SoC – 128 kW;
• 53 to 57 percent SoC – 112 kW;
• 58 to 63 percent SoC – 95 kW;
• 64 to 68 percent SoC – 84 kW;
• 69 to 74 percent SoC – 73 kW;
• 75 to 80 percent SoC – 52 kW;
• 81 to 86 percent SoC – 44 kW;
• 87 to 100 percent SoC – 30 kW.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-gets-tested-at-a-dc-fast-charger-236803.html

OOS does the work, and some lazy reporter makes up a story about it. How about they do the work themselves instead of stealing other people's work? Venture out of your parent's basement and do something productive for once.

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