Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

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[Sparkland]

I wonder why Rivian is the recipient of so much cash these days. VW is financing their operations and now the federal government is giving them a $6 billion loan to finish their plant in Georgia which was put on hold for a period of time. It's like they are being propped up because they are NOT Tesla.

 

[Ziggy]

Road tripping EVs is still not ready for the masses IMHO. Respecting the numerous opinions expressed above, I do think the 10% challenge addresses one of the primary concerns ICE drivers have about making the switch, even if they don't road trip much (and aren't in a big hurry doing so when they do). Normal folks don't want the drama of checking Plugshare the night before, worrying about whether a charger will work or not, or having to wait 10-20 min. longer than they planned at a stop (late to work, appointment, etc.). The frustration in Kyle's voice (my opinion) reflects not just his frustration with Rivian (such a great EV in most other respects...why didn't they get the pack thermal management right?) but also how this sort of result inhibits non-EV drivers from making the transition.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I wonder why Rivian is the recipient of so much cash these days. VW is financing their operations and now the federal government is giving them a $6 billion loan to finish their plant in Georgia which was put on hold for a period of time. It's like they are being propped up because they are NOT Tesla.

Great question. My hypothesis is that it’s a hedge against a Chinese EV invasion. EVs are clearly the future and the US and China are clearly in a race for EV supremacy.

I could be wrong but seems like the most plausible explanation. I don’t know anyone who thinks ICE or even Hybrid are the future. Aside from EV being superior and better for the environment they also will save the auto makers a huge amount of regulatory costs. Emissions, CAFE, etc Less to break and less to fix as well.

The question is how long the marathon takes to run and who comes out with the best position.

there is a whole political piece to it as well which I will not get into.

 

[Milk]

Great question. My hypothesis is that it’s a hedge against a Chinese EV invasion. EVs are clearly the future and the US and China are clearly in a race for EV supremacy.

I could be wrong but seems like the most plausible explanation. I don’t know anyone who thinks ICE or even Hybrid are the future. Aside from EV being superior and better for the environment they also will save the auto makers a huge amount of regulatory costs. Emissions, CAFE, etc Less to break and less to fix as well.

The question is how long the marathon takes to run and who comes out with the best position.

there is a whole political piece to it as well which I will not get into.

A LOT of people think hybrids are the future. I guess it's all perspective.

If ICE cars are the present (they still make up the overwhelming majority worldwide) mixed with some hybrid and EV, both hybrid and EV are the future. But I would say hybrids will play a bigger part over the next 20-30 years. You could make a case that in developing nations EV will be a bigger part of the future than hybrids, but I think the opposite is true from a global perspective.

The infrastructure for EV's dramatically lags that of ICE and hybrid. Imagine what the infrastructure looks like in developing nations.

 

[SASSquatch]

Ahh now I see. I can understand how that is frustrating. You guys know I didn't cut any line right?

I bought my R1T used with 200 miles on it and I picked up my wife's R1S early from the Rivian Shop. Just want to get straight as I don't want any beef with you guys here

I skim Kyle's videos mostly as I don't have the time to watch the full episodes....usually. Kyle is knowledgeable which is the primary reason I watch. I certainly don't agree with everything Kyle says though and the way he has been towards Rivian lately is very frustrating to me.

If I am going to present something as objective I do just that. If I am sharing my opinion or presenting things that are subjective then I also try to point that out.

I also have a detailing obsession so I probably watch Coleton now more than Kyle (out of spec detailer). I am a huge fan of Tom at State Of Charge...Tom is very professional and all his reviews are about as objective as you can get.

I really enjoy Coleton and that is the only Out of Spec channel I support. Tom from State of Charge is one of my favorite reviewers. Alex from Alex on Autos is also a great channel. He was also miffed at Kyle cutting the line (especially since he had/has 4 times as many subscribers) and he waited in line like everyone else.

 

[NY_Rob]

..Aside from EV being superior and better for the environment they also will save the auto makers a huge amount of regulatory costs. Emissions, CAFE, etc Less to break and less to fix as well.

Also massively more expensive to repair out of warranty or for bodywork at this time.
Things need to change as these departures from "regular" ICE repair costs will not be accepted by mainstream auto buyers.

$42K dent repair in the rear quarter panel?
$800+ to replace two $89 (retail price) batts in the R1 series vehicles?
$1,600+ windshield?
$2,600+ glass roof?

 

[SASSquatch]

Also massively more expensive to repair out of warranty or for bodywork at this time.
Things need to change as these departures from "regular" ICE repair costs will not be accepted by mainstream auto buyers.

$42K dent repair in the rear quarter panel?
$800+ to replace two $89 (retail price) batts in the R1 series vehicles?
$1,600+ windshield?
$2,600+ glass roof?

Don't forget sky high insurance costs. I literally went EV shopping for our last EV by getting insurance quotes before even stepping foot on a lot for a test drive!

The challenge for new EV only OEMs is that they need a mountain of cash to get established where ICE OEMs have nearly 100 year head start.

To survive, they reduce complexity and try and reduce the number of parts. That is great from a cost savings and efficiency perspective from the OEM, but not so great from a repairability/insurability perspective for the consumer.

e.g. Teslas are pretty much scaled diecast Matchbox cars at this point. You dent that rear quarter, you've totaled the car.

 

[Zorg]

Road tripping EVs is still not ready for the masses IMHO. Respecting the numerous opinions expressed above, I do think the 10% challenge addresses one of the primary concerns ICE drivers have about making the switch, even if they don't road trip much (and aren't in a big hurry doing so when they do). Normal folks don't want the drama of checking Plugshare the night before, worrying about whether a charger will work or not, or having to wait 10-20 min. longer than they planned at a stop (late to work, appointment, etc.). The frustration in Kyle's voice (my opinion) reflects not just his frustration with Rivian (such a great EV in most other respects...why didn't they get the pack thermal management right?) but also how this sort of result inhibits non-EV drivers from making the transition.

At this point, I recommend Tesla to first time EV buyers. It's simple to use and chargers are everywhere (at least in the West coast). I love my Rivian but the infrastructure needs to improve for non Tesla. Yes, I know that 2/3 of Tesla SC are compatible but the opposite side charger is a pain and a lot of the major highway superchargers are the old v2 that aren't compatible.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Also massively more expensive to repair out of warranty or for bodywork at this time.
Things need to change as these departures from "regular" ICE repair costs will not be accepted by mainstream auto buyers.

$42K dent repair in the rear quarter panel?
$800+ to replace two $89 (retail price) batts in the R1 series vehicles?
$1,600+ windshield?
$2,600+ glass roof?

These repair prices are pretty typical for ANY vehicle of the price point EV or ICE.

 

[mkhuffman]

I really enjoy Coleton and that is the only Out of Spec channel I support. Tom from State of Charge is one of my favorite reviewers. Alex from Alex on Autos is also a great channel. He was also miffed at Kyle cutting the line (especially since he had/has 4 times as many subscribers) and he waited in line like everyone else.

So, not trying to stir up an old subject, but I am wondering if you think he just has a friend at Rivian that hooked him up. I can see that happening. And while frustrating because he skipped the line, it is not unusual to leverage a relationship. I would do it. And if it happened Iike that, it would not be because he has a social media presence. Is it possible? Does it matter?

In the video he says "everyone he knows who got a R1 didn't wait in line". That doesn't seem right at all. So it is definitely fishy.

 

[emoore]

A LOT of people think hybrids are the future. I guess it's all perspective.

If ICE cars are the present (they still make up the overwhelming majority worldwide) mixed with some hybrid and EV, both hybrid and EV are the future. But I would say hybrids will play a bigger part over the next 20-30 years. You could make a case that in developing nations EV will be a bigger part of the future than hybrids, but I think the opposite is true from a global perspective.

The infrastructure for EV's dramatically lags that of ICE and hybrid. Imagine what the infrastructure looks like in developing nations.

Many think hybrids are their future and not their kids or grandkids future. People are selfish. And there is no way hybrids will enjoy being around for over 100 years like ICE.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

With dispersed solar, or even vehicle solar if Aptera-like companies develop robustly, it might be much easier to bring electricity to developing nations than it would be to bring a robust fossil-fuel infrastructure. Reality keeps surprising me....

Best to all!

 

[emoore]

With dispersed solar, or even vehicle solar if Aptera-like companies develop robustly, it might be much easier to bring electricity to developing nations than it would be to bring a robust fossil-fuel infrastructure. Reality keeps surprising me....

Best to all!

Should be a lot easier.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

A LOT of people think hybrids are the future. I guess it's all perspective.

If ICE cars are the present (they still make up the overwhelming majority worldwide) mixed with some hybrid and EV, both hybrid and EV are the future. But I would say hybrids will play a bigger part over the next 20-30 years. You could make a case that in developing nations EV will be a bigger part of the future than hybrids, but I think the opposite is true from a global perspective.

The infrastructure for EV's dramatically lags that of ICE and hybrid. Imagine what the infrastructure looks like in developing nations.

Hybrids are a bridge IMO to the future which is full EV. EVs don't care how the electrons were generated (e.g. via coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, etc.) and are ultimately the way...again that's my opinion and its a long term thing.

So with that said hybrids and plug-in hybrids are important in the transition but I wouldn't say they are the future. Hybrids will probably play a more important role in long haul trucking where full electrification will be most challenging.

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