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Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

Ziggy

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Wow...Kyle just posted his 10% challenge test of a new Gen2 dual Max truck. Charge curve bad....driver assist didn't work....sound system horrible....heat pump noisy....build quality bad.... I've never heard Kyle struggle harder to find positive things to say.

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SPITmadFIRE

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Yeah, charging is absolutely the biggest problem with these vehicles. Lately my Gen 1 R1S Max Pack has been struggling to get higher than 140kW even on completely empty RAN stations. It then drops below 100kW before getting close to 80%
 

Electrified Outdoors

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Kyle is a knowledgeable guy. He is also a Rivian owner. I don’t agree with a lot of the things he says but we are all free to have our own opinions.

The video did sort of go off the rails as he took the opportunity to complain about various different things on the vehicle. I didn’t watch the whole thing…just skipped around to pertinent parts.

In the end I think we all know that Rivian is not the fastest charging EV around. For that it would need to support 800v.

Lastly, Kyle has been critical of the max pack since its release. While I don’t agree with a lot of what he said at least he is sharing his opinion openly and honestly.
 

Jonger1150

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I'm happy with charging, but -- I'll just about expect or require 800V before I re-up for another R1T in 2027. I hope to hear something before then. I'd like the option to tow and cutting 25% off of the total charge time would be almost a given with 800V.
 

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SPITmadFIRE

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In the end I think we all know that Rivian is not the fastest charging EV around. For that it would need to support 800v.
I don't see how this is the issue. They can't even maximize the 400V architecture they currently have. 800V may result in a higher instantaneous peak at 10% SOC but it's still going to plummet immediately if you look at it wrong.
 

SPITmadFIRE

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Agree 800V charging is really a game changer. I’ve really been impressed by it. Would be great to see it come to these trucks.
I'm happy with charging, but -- I'll just about expect or require 800V before I re-up for another R1T in 2027. I hope to hear something before then. I'd like the option to tow and cutting 25% off of the total charge time would be almost a given with 800V.
I don't understand this logic. 800V isn't just some magical "go faster" charging hack. Kilowatts are kilowatts at the end of the day; if you can't dissipate the heat generated by 200kW of charging for more than a few minutes, you sure as hell won't be able to dissipate 350kW for longer.

The max pack seems more and more like Rivian knew it was a huge compromise to produce, but felt like they had to do it because of their initial range promises back when we all reserved our preorders. They dug themselves a hole and it's gonna take an entire pack redesign to get out of it, which I don't think they'll do. They have far too much to worry about with R2 and R3 to make ends meet.
 

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I don't understand this logic. 800V isn't just some magical "go faster" charging hack. Kilowatts are kilowatts at the end of the day; if you can't dissipate the heat generated by 200kW of charging for more than a few minutes, you sure as hell won't be able to dissipate 350kW for longer.

The max pack seems more and more like Rivian knew it was a huge compromise to produce, but felt like they had to do it because of their initial range promises back when we all reserved our preorders. They dug themselves a hole and it's gonna take an entire pack redesign to get out of it, which I don't think they'll do. They have far too much to worry about with R2 and R3 to make ends meet.
800V generates less heat at a given kW, because it takes lower amps to reach it. Amperage is what generates the heat.

Even if the vehicle were still limited to 220kW, the thermals would be better on an 800V pack, possibly allowing longer sessions at higher kW. But realistically, Rivian on 800V should be able to charge much closer to a Hummer EV/Sierra EV/Silverado EV.

But yeah, the Max Pack's charge curve is *SUPER* disappointing. I was a little wistful when getting my Launch Edition that I wasn't getting the Max Pack. Now seeing what Max Pack actually is, I'm glad.
 

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I don't understand this logic. 800V isn't just some magical "go faster" charging hack. Kilowatts are kilowatts at the end of the day; if you can't dissipate the heat generated by 200kW of charging for more than a few minutes, you sure as hell won't be able to dissipate 350kW for longer.

The max pack seems more and more like Rivian knew it was a huge compromise to produce, but felt like they had to do it because of their initial range promises back when we all reserved our preorders. They dug themselves a hole and it's gonna take an entire pack redesign to get out of it, which I don't think they'll do. They have far too much to worry about with R2 and R3 to make ends meet.
Take an air hose and push X-amount of air through it and see what the heat is like. Now double the hose diameter and see how warm it gets.

Similar principle.
 

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800V generates less heat at a given kW, because it takes lower amps to reach it. Amperage is what generates the heat.
This isn't strictly correct, but you're definitely right that higher voltage architectures usually generate less heat. We're not talking about a linear relationship here, however. Changing to 800V will not fix the charge rate. Cooling and chemistry fixes the charge rate.
 

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I don't understand this logic. 800V isn't just some magical "go faster" charging hack. Kilowatts are kilowatts at the end of the day; if you can't dissipate the heat generated by 200kW of charging for more than a few minutes, you sure as hell won't be able to dissipate 350kW for longer.

The max pack seems more and more like Rivian knew it was a huge compromise to produce, but felt like they had to do it because of their initial range promises back when we all reserved our preorders. They dug themselves a hole and it's gonna take an entire pack redesign to get out of it, which I don't think they'll do. They have far too much to worry about with R2 and R3 to make ends meet.
Ok except I get 200-250kw charge rate and can add 60kwh in about 18 minutes. Maybe I don’t understand so it seems like magic lol. But it’s fast as hell.
 

SPITmadFIRE

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Take an air hose and push X-amount of air through it and see what the heat is like. Now double the hose diameter and see how warm it gets.

Similar principle.
I understand how clean and satisfying of a metaphor this is, but it's neither relevant nor accurate enough to matter whatsoever. You're talking about transferring power through a conduit. If the charge cable was the limitation here, I'd absolutely agree; crank up the voltage and you've got a winner.

Would an 800V architecture be better? Yes, definitely. Is 800V some magic wand that'll fix everything? Absolutely not. Rivian failed to design a 400V pack with adequate cooling because they bet on their single-plate design for the large pack and couldn't make it sufficient for max. I don't understand why this is such a difficult thing to reckon with.
 

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Ok except I get 200-250kw charge rate and can add 60kwh in about 18 minutes. Maybe I don’t understand so it seems like magic lol. But it’s fast as hell.
You do not get 250kW. The peak charge rate under ideal conditions is less than 220kW. That's starting with an 80F battery at <10%. This isn't even true for max packs as the entire thread you're replying to is talking about. Did you even watch the video?
 

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First, I owned quite a bit of Rivian stocks; therefore, I wanted Rivian to do well. Second, I loved my Gen 1 R1S. Third, I have been watching Kyle for a long time and valued his opinions. I can understand if this was a R2 due to cost cutting but this Gen 2 costed more than the Gen 1 and it is supposed to be better... way better. But...
 
 





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