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SASSquatch

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Don't REVs also have a port for directly charging the battery as well? Therefore it would be a plug-in hybrid.

Anyway, in that interview with RJ he mentions multiple times about how he believes we need to get off of fossil fuels ASAP. He even talks about it not in terms of climate change (although he's done that in the past), but also about how we're just plain gonna run out of fossil fuels. It's finite. To me, that doesn't seem like a mindset that would be cool with putting anything that burns gas into a vehicle that his company builds.
Don't EVs have a port to charge the battery? The difference between a plug-in hybrid and a REV battery electric vehicle is that a plug-in hybrid has two propulsion systems - one driven by an ICE and one driven by a battery and electric motor.

A REV only has one propulsion system - electric motor and battery. The onboard ICE acts as a generator..

Specifics matter.
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Hillbilly

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I don't see myself ever buying a VW. But I can imagine being interested in some of the other VW owned brands so I'll start off by saying that I hope all of the VW brands incorporate Rivian's software.

An electric 718 or 911 with Rivian software would be awesome! There are 0 EV's right now without a roof! It is a hole that really needs filling.
As much as I "get" that an electric 911 would be great, I would have to go for an ice engine.
 

KW_88_SS

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Itā€™s software, what does capacity have to do with it? You can copy software. Development is also irrelevant because your claim is that Porsche is already better than Rivian so there doesnā€™t need to be any development. Thereā€™s no way Porsche would be the more expensive option because itā€™s in house not outsourced.

Face it, thereā€™s nothing to support your assertion and Porsche software sucks.
No, you canā€™t just 'copy and paste software.' Thatā€™s not how this works. Software isnā€™t some magic Word doc you can duplicateā€”itā€™s an intricate stack, designed specifically to integrate with the hardware and systems it runs on.

I actually own both and drive them regularly during the weekā€”you donā€™t. Funny how thereā€™s also another member here with both cars saying the same thing. Weird, huh? But sure, letā€™s conveniently ignore the endless complaints about Rivianā€™s software stack, lol.

I get itā€”you want to believe youā€™re in the upper tiers of luxury ownership and justify your purchase by pretending Rivian competes with cars clearly out of its league. I like my Rivian too, but I donā€™t let personal bias overwrite logic.
 

Donald Stanfield

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No, you canā€™t just 'copy and paste software.' Thatā€™s not how this works. Software isnā€™t some magic Word doc you can duplicateā€”itā€™s an intricate stack, designed specifically to integrate with the hardware and systems it runs on.

I actually own both and drive them regularly during the weekā€”you donā€™t. Funny how thereā€™s also another member here with both cars saying the same thing. Weird, huh? But sure, letā€™s conveniently ignore the endless complaints about Rivianā€™s software stack, lol.

I get itā€”you want to believe youā€™re in the upper tiers of luxury ownership and justify your purchase by pretending Rivian competes with cars clearly out of its league. I like my Rivian too, but I donā€™t let personal bias overwrite logic.
Porsche is overpriced and their software isnā€™t good. They handle better than the Rivian does, Iā€™ll give you that much. Iā€™ve driven a taycan and that was enough to know. I also like the Rivian software stack better than BMWā€™s and I DO have one of those.

Also I donā€™t give a shit where I am in ā€œtiers of luxury ownershipā€. If I did Iā€™d buy a Range Rover or a G wagen. I donā€™t need to impress people with how much money I have because my peers have a similar buying capability and thereā€™s no reason to brag to those who have less.

With that comment I get why you have to believe your Porsche is better in every aspect, you paid the Porsche premium and you believe that makes you special. Sorry to say but it doesnā€™t. You can like what you like, but the Porsche software isnā€™t behind Rivianā€™s thatā€™s an objective fact.
 

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Donald Stanfield

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No, you canā€™t just 'copy and paste software.' Thatā€™s not how this works. Software isnā€™t some magic Word doc you can duplicateā€”itā€™s an intricate stack, designed specifically to integrate with the hardware and systems it runs on.

I actually own both and drive them regularly during the weekā€”you donā€™t. Funny how thereā€™s also another member here with both cars saying the same thing. Weird, huh? But sure, letā€™s conveniently ignore the endless complaints about Rivianā€™s software stack, lol.

I get itā€”you want to believe youā€™re in the upper tiers of luxury ownership and justify your purchase by pretending Rivian competes with cars clearly out of its league. I like my Rivian too, but I donā€™t let personal bias overwrite logic.
Also Porsche and Audi share platforms for vehicles yet VW spent 5B to buy Rivianā€™s software. That right there proves you wrong.
 

MountainBikeDude

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Just watching a movie on EV6 from Kyle and as I'm watching it, I can't help but get the feeling Hyundai might be one of the ones knocking on Rivians door. Just watching the UI is painful, let alone being stuck interacting with it.
 

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Just watching a movie on EV6 from Kyle and as I'm watching it, I can't help but get the feeling Hyundai might be one of the ones knocking on Rivians door. Just watching the UI is painful, let alone being stuck interacting with it.
I hear that Fordā€™s is pretty pathetic as well
 

HaveBlue

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Also Porsche and Audi share platforms for vehicles yet VW spent 5B to buy Rivianā€™s software. That right there proves you wrong.
But the electronics in porsches are not compatible with the rest of vag. They do their own.
 

Donald Stanfield

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But the electronics in porsches are not compatible with the rest of vag. They do their own.
If they were that great why wouldn't the rest of VW adopt theirs?
 

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HaveBlue

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If they were that great why wouldn't the rest of VW adopt theirs?
My point is simply that they are not the same. The programmable Bosch ECUs in a Q5 aren't in a Macan. A VAG HexCan cable and software doesn't work. I have no opinion on which is better or worse but Porsche doesn't share.
 

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My point is simply that they are not the same. The programmable Bosch ECUs in a Q5 aren't in a Macan. A VAG HexCan cable and software doesn't work. I have no opinion on which is better or worse but Porsche doesn't share.
I donā€™t think heā€™s implying that itā€™s a simple plug-and-play swap. I think the point is why is VW paying $6 billion for a platform if they already have access to a more superior one for free?
 

HaveBlue

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I see. Yea I think the old CanBus model just doesn't work well for the EV world where modules aren't updatable easily especially OTA. In that way, VW and Porsche are stuck in the same way with CanBus modules coming from a bunch of different manufacturers that they can't control or update easily. They build the car, get all the modules talking to each other in the right order, flash the system and sell the car. Typically anything outside of engine and transmission ECU never gets an update and always requires a cable.

At least VW/VAG have been around enough that the average mechanic can program features. Same goes for some BMWs. Tuners typically break the encryption on the Bosch ECU modules within a few months and then can mod that.
 

captainjp

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I see. Yea I think the old CanBus model just doesn't work well for the EV world where modules aren't updatable easily especially OTA. In that way, VW and Porsche are stuck in the same way with CanBus modules coming from a bunch of different manufacturers that they can't control or update easily. They build the car, get all the modules talking to each other in the right order, flash the system and sell the car. Typically anything outside of engine and transmission ECU never gets an update and always requires a cable.

At least VW/VAG have been around enough that the average mechanic can program features. Same goes for some BMWs. Tuners typically break the encryption on the Bosch ECU modules within a few months and then can mod that.
Thanks for the info!
 

KW_88_SS

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I see. Yea I think the old CanBus model just doesn't work well for the EV world where modules aren't updatable easily especially OTA. In that way, VW and Porsche are stuck in the same way with CanBus modules coming from a bunch of different manufacturers that they can't control or update easily. They build the car, get all the modules talking to each other in the right order, flash the system and sell the car. Typically anything outside of engine and transmission ECU never gets an update and always requires a cable.

At least VW/VAG have been around enough that the average mechanic can program features. Same goes for some BMWs. Tuners typically break the encryption on the Bosch ECU modules within a few months and then can mod that.
This 10000%. Itā€™s not just a matter of "copying the software," as some have suggested. The entire system is deeply integrated with the hardware, far beyond just the polished UI that most people see. It's exactly why manufacturers can do an update to adjust reversing speed, ride control, etc. The idea that ā€œthey would just get it from Porsche if theirs is so goodā€ completely misses the pointā€”itā€™s like trying to install a Windows version of Excel on a Mac and expecting it to work seamlessly.

The old CAN bus model was never built for the modern EV ecosystem, where over-the-air updates are crucial but difficult when dealing with modules from multiple manufacturers. Porsche and VW are stuck managing a web of components that arenā€™t easily updated or controlled, unlike Tesla/Rivian, which designed its architecture around software-defined updates from the start.

And sure, VW/Audi group cars have been around long enough that mechanics and tuners have figured out ways to work with themā€”BMW too, for that matterā€”but trying to retrofit an entire integrated vehicle software stack isn't cut and dry. The level of coordination needed to make all these modules talk to each other correctly isn't something you can just "port over" from one system to another.
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