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captainjp

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Disagree, @Yossarian

I find it unlikely that DOE funds for projects (Rivian, Ford’s battery venture) that create thousands of jobs in US will be withheld or stalled. ESPECIALLY for “Made in the USA” vehicles. These were not specifically mentioned in the EO. Yes, DOGE mentioned, but I give them no credence. It’s just an advisory committee that’s already falling apart not even a week into the new administration. Now, tax incentives for vehicle purchase/lease and charging infrastructure subsidies are another story.
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Hey guys, so maybe it’s just me and correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t like this idea of other companies using their software. Take VW for example and their new scout models VW is releasing next year. These vehicles will dominate the market especially Rivians small to mid size suv market they’ve established. A basic consumer will more than likely prefer to purchase a VW based vehicle over a less reputable brand like Rivian. When customers realize software is identical and they’re just paying for appearance they will lean toward VW IMO. Another point to consider is supply chain… VW has a much better supply chain than Rivian which means they will be able to market their vehicles better, faster, and cheaper than Rivian.

In conclusion what advantage does Rivian have in competitiveness to other more established manufacturers if they sell their software? All I can see happening is Rivian is doing this to stay alive now and get to the R2 but in the long run they are hurting themselves strategically and virtually eliminating their advantages in the market.

This is my opinion and just curious what you others think of this.
 

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In conclusion what advantage does Rivian have in competitiveness to other more established manufacturers if they sell their software? All I can see happening is Rivian is doing this to stay alive now and get to the R2 but in the long run they are hurting themselves strategically and virtually eliminating their advantages in the market.

This is my opinion and just curious what you others think of this.
My understanding of the JV is that VW is LICENSING Rivian's software stack and NOT buying it. What advantage does this give to Rivan? The same advantage that Microsoft had with IBM back in the day of the PC....IBM machines couldn't work without Microsoft's software. If VW uses Rivian's software stack in all its cars, that would be great......the cars can't run without Rivian. Just like Microsoft was the one with the leverage over PC hardware makers, Rivian would be the one with leverage over "car body manufacturers". Just my two cents worth...I may be wrong.
 

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I would personally love to see VW and RIvian work together on REVs. Can you imagine a REV R1T that can go 600 miles or 300 miles towing?

You don't have to blow up the size of the battery and then you are only using the ICE when you go on a roadtrip or are towing. VW is already on record stating that they are going to make the ICE efficient and not just throw something in there from an existing product line unlike what BMW did in their i3 Rex since the ICE is only acting as a generator.
 

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I would personally love to see VW and RIvian work together on REVs. Can you imagine a REV R1T that can go 600 miles or 300 miles towing?

You don't have to blow up the size of the battery and then you are only using the ICE when you go on a roadtrip or are towing. VW is already on record stating that they are going to make the ICE efficient and not just throw something in there from an existing product line unlike what BMW did in their i3 Rex since the ICE is only acting as a generator.
I wrote about this in another thread, but Rivian isn't going to do range extenders. Here's a link to my post:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/range-extender-for-r1t-in-the-future.37102/post-708244

The other thing that I feel like most people forget about is that when Rivian or VW say "Rivian's software" is that they are NOT talking about the infotainment, or ANYTHING user-facing. Its only the behind-the-scenes software that controls the various computers (ECUs, I believe) connected to actual vehicle components.
 

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I wrote about this in another thread, but Rivian isn't going to do range extenders. Here's a link to my post:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/range-extender-for-r1t-in-the-future.37102/post-708244

The other thing that I feel like most people forget about is that when Rivian or VW say "Rivian's software" is that they are NOT talking about the infotainment, or ANYTHING user-facing. Its only the behind-the-scenes software that controls the various computers (ECUs, I believe) connected to actual vehicle components.
Right, it's a good point. What Rivian is licensing and what other manufacturers are interested in is the zonal architecture for control of all aspects of the vehicle. It doesn't include the software interface that Rivian has developed for the user to interact with the vehicle.

What you think as "terrible software" because the screens take too long to load or your music app crashes is irrelevant to the manufacturing simplicity, cost savings, and ease of update deployment that Rivian is providing. Those are the things that other manufacturers fail miserably at currently and would be interested in licensing instead of doing the in house development required to get there.
 

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Just think, Ford probably could have had access to all of this on the cheap if they hadn’t sold their share of Rivian.
 

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My understanding of the JV is that VW is LICENSING Rivian's software stack and NOT buying it. What advantage does this give to Rivan? The same advantage that Microsoft had with IBM back in the day of the PC....IBM machines couldn't work without Microsoft's software. If VW uses Rivian's software stack in all its cars, that would be great......the cars can't run without Rivian. Just like Microsoft was the one with the leverage over PC hardware makers, Rivian would be the one with leverage over "car body manufacturers". Just my two cents worth...I may be wrong.
The relevant IP has actually been transferred to the JV. So VW owns half of it now via the JV. That’s what VW got from the $5-6B investment into Rivian
 

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Just think, Ford probably could have had access to all of this on the cheap if they hadn’t sold their share of Rivian.
One does wonder if Ford is maybe kicking themselves over their decision to break off the JV with Rivian and their investments. Not sure how either side would feel about them getting back together.
 

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I wrote about this in another thread, but Rivian isn't going to do range extenders. Here's a link to my post:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/range-extender-for-r1t-in-the-future.37102/post-708244

The other thing that I feel like most people forget about is that when Rivian or VW say "Rivian's software" is that they are NOT talking about the infotainment, or ANYTHING user-facing. Its only the behind-the-scenes software that controls the various computers (ECUs, I believe) connected to actual vehicle components.
REVs are not plug in hybrids. My reading of the WSJ article is he was referencing plug-in hybrids. REVs are electric vehicles with electric propulsion that feature an efficient ICE serving only as a generator to recharge the battery.

Given that VW via Scout Motors is making an investment in REV vehicles - and so are a slew of other OEMs including nearly every OEM in China which is poised to dominate the EV market - it would make strategic sense for Rivian to explore this via a strategic partnership. Even if it isn't featured in their vehicles initially.

Most of the reservations for the Scout vehicles are for the REV version. Demand from consumers is clearly there.
 

VandalSibs

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REVs are not plug in hybrids. My reading of the WSJ article is he was referencing plug-in hybrids. REVs are electric vehicles with electric propulsion that feature an efficient ICE serving only as a generator to recharge the battery.

Given that VW via Scout Motors is making an investment in REV vehicles - and so are a slew of other OEMs including nearly every OEM in China which is poised to dominate the EV market - it would make strategic sense for Rivian to explore this via a strategic partnership. Even if it isn't featured in their vehicles initially.

Most of the reservations for the Scout vehicles are for the REV version. Demand from consumers is clearly there.
Don't REVs also have a port for directly charging the battery as well? Therefore it would be a plug-in hybrid.

Anyway, in that interview with RJ he mentions multiple times about how he believes we need to get off of fossil fuels ASAP. He even talks about it not in terms of climate change (although he's done that in the past), but also about how we're just plain gonna run out of fossil fuels. It's finite. To me, that doesn't seem like a mindset that would be cool with putting anything that burns gas into a vehicle that his company builds.
 

HaveBlue

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I think on plug in hybrids the ICE motor also propels the vehicle.
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