Off Road Range for EV? Jeep 4xe Review / Comparison from TFL

Woogie11

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Interesting off road comparison done by the TFL crew, which included a Jeep Wrangler 4xe, Ford Bronco, and Land Rover Defender. The Jeep was able to make it 3 miles up the trail (albeit a tough trail) on pure electric with a 17kwh battery. They mentioned this equating to roughly 80-85% reduction in range… not a good sign for off roaders looking to go full EV. Let’s hope those charging stations are installed quick!

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Ssaygmo

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There is a prominent YouTube truck channel that does pretty decent real world reviews, that many of you may be familiar with. They recently got a new lr defender, new bronco, and the 4xe plug-in jeep rubicon on a decent off-road trail.


The jeep got 27 miles in their on-road range test, and 3 miles off-road. Granted, this is with a small 17kwh battery and low range transfer case, with quite a bit of drivetrain loss.

This makes me VERY curious what general EV off-road range will be.
 
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jjwolf120

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Your results may vary. Emme Hall was getting an estimated 220 miles of range in the Rebelle Rally. (She was actually getting less, because Rivian only giving her access to 75% of the battery.)
 

Smithery

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Your results may vary. Emme Hall was getting an estimated 220 miles of range in the Rebelle Rally. (She was actually getting less, because Rivian only giving her access to 75% of the battery.)
She wasn't getting 220mi off-road with 75% of the battery.

She was averaging 167mi off-road with 75% of the battery - Source

That's still "less than a 30% reduction" vs "more than 90% reduction" like the Jeep.

I didn't watch the video, so I didn't see any guesses they might've taken as to why they saw such a dramatic decrease.

But when it comes to "turning energy into motion", I'd expect off-road to be "the same amount of harder" than on-road for all motor types.

One thing EVs have going against them is the higher weight, but that alone can't explain the Jeep result here.
 
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jjwolf120

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She wasn't getting 220mi off-road with 75% of the battery.

She was averaging 167mi off-road with 75% of the battery - Source
That is what I was trying to say, but your post is much clearer.
 

Ssaygmo

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Whatever battery they were extrapolating from… is it confirmed they were talking about the “300 mile” battery and not the “400 mile” pack?

Of course the Rebelle is a moderate speed course, maintaining momentum and rolling on a flat terrain, regardless of dirt or asphalt, is definitely more efficient than the tfl jeep video where they were taking the vehciles up a steep crawling trail where you’re basically at walking speed and increasing in elevation fast.

My point is simply; it will be interesting once we see real world range when rock crawling/running super slow off-road trails.
 

Babbuino

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She wasn't getting 220mi off-road with 75% of the battery.

She was averaging 167mi off-road with 75% of the battery - Source

That's still "less than a 30% reduction" vs "more than 90% reduction" like the Jeep.

I didn't watch the video, so I didn't see any guesses they might've taken as to why they saw such a dramatic decrease.

But when it comes to "turning energy into motion", I'd expect off-road to be "the same amount of harder" than on-road for all motor types.

One thing EVs have going against them is the higher weight, but that alone can't explain the Jeep result here.
She also mentioned ~50mile range in the dunes...
 

Cassidy_DM

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Actually, reading Ms. Hall's article makes me feel better. I won't be doing anything remotely like the Rebelle Rally (not at first anyways,) so I should be more than safe when I go out. My main concerns are charging deserts on rural U.S. highways. I like to avoid Interstate travel when I can.
 

sevengroove

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There is a prominent YouTube truck channel that does pretty decent real world reviews, that many of you may be familiar with. They recently got a new lr defender, new bronco, and the 4xe plug-in jeep rubicon on a decent off-road trail.


The jeep got 27 miles in their on-road range test, and 3 miles off-road. Granted, this is with a small 17kwh battery and low range transfer case, with quite a bit of drivetrain loss.

This makes me VERY curious what general EV off-road range will be.
There are a few variables I can think of which might lead to much better results on the Rivian vs. the 4xe:
  • one electric motor vs. 4 independent motors
Actually I think that's the main thing. The 4xe has one electric motor pushing power to all four wheels, and doing that task on a flat and smooth road is a completely different proposition from sending varying amounts of power and torque to four wheels doing four different things off-road. This is where the Rivian will shine. Sure, there will still likely be a bigger range hit for off-road vs. on-road driving, but not an 85-90% reduction like this test for the 4xe.
 

manitou202

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Keep in mind plug-in-hybrids are not as efficient as pure EV's. The Wrangler is rated for 21 miles of range with 15kWh of usable battery capacity. That is an efficiency of 0.715 kWh / mile. Compare this to a Mustang Mach E with an average efficiency of about 0.300 kWh / mile. More than double the efficiency.

The Wrangler hybrid has a single electric motors sandwiched between the engine and transmission which then goes through several axles to drive each wheel. There are going to be a lot more losses through this type of setup versus Rivian with 4 independent motors, each driving a wheel.

Add in many other unknown factors (temperature, elevation, A/C use, etc), and it's really hard to gauge how this would compare to the Rivian.
 

skyote

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I agree with @sevengroove that I believe the 4 independent motors will be more efficient than the 4xe from an architecture standpoint, and will not have losses from all of the mechanical driveline components (transmission, transfer case, differentials).

However, the R1s will be even heavier vehicles, so they have that as an added detriment when it comes to steeper climbing.

It will definitely be interesting to see how these vehicles perform and their range in various types of off road scenarios.

And for another theme from that video, the R1 20s will have more sidewall than the Defender, but I still hope a pair of 17" or 18" wheels might fit around the production brakes!
 

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So, I was (Sort of) joking the other day when I commented on a photo of a Rivian out on a dirt road in seemingly middle of nowhere. I basically asked how many panic attacks they've had with range loss on dirt roads. I hope that they have or implement some sort of ability to predict range loss based on anticipated travel surface or if you're "off road" or something. Quick story time for added experience.

I recently drove up to a hike using with about 13 miles of forest road on the way to the trailhead. Gaining about 3,000 feet in the process (on the dirt road).

From home to the forest trail road I drove about 40 miles and used less than 20% of my ID.4 battery at highway speed, gaining roughly 2000 of elevation. So an equivalent of about 200 ish miles of range uphill. Not unexpected.

Of the 13 miles of the forest road, 6 were paved. The rest was a reasonable forest road with some a good amount of potholes. I was generally driving up it at about 15 mph or less. That 13 miles consumed about 15% of my batter. Doing some quick math I'd guess that the gravel portion at up about 12 to 13 percent over the 7 miles. So extrapolating out, that would put me at about 60ish miles of range going ~15 mph at a ~6% grade. It screwed with the GOM in my ID.4 so much that when I got back in the car to go home, it said I wouldn't make it to any charging destinations or home with a 26% charge. I got home with remaining.

So, to summarize:
ID.4 I consistently get 250ish miles range.
Driving uphill at quick speeds having fun, call it 210ish miles.
Going slowly uphill on a gravel road: 60 miles.
 
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