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Bobthebuilder352

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This is one of the more common sense set of rules I’ve seen for a govt program. Only change I would have done is have a more graduated program for subsidy location since the 1mile rule helps strip mall owners and hurts main street in most places in much of USA but it looks like commenting period has ended. Also, I’m curious what the subsidy amount is.
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Autolycus

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This is one of the more common sense set of rules I’ve seen for a govt program. Only change I would have done is have a more graduated program for subsidy location since the 1mile rule helps strip mall owners and hurts main street in most places in much of USA but it looks like commenting period has ended. Also, I’m curious what the subsidy amount is.
Exceptions to the 1-mile rule are allowed, "if justified". I'm guessing that will require either a major practical problem (e.g. no suitable locations at an exit in the right range between stations) or for some specific socio-economic situation (e.g. a downtown business district is 1.5 miles off the national highway instead of <1 mile or ).

Here's a good article explaining the whole process. These are block grants given to the states to implement their own plan for getting corridors qualified for the EV corridor-ready designation. It includes how much money several Southeastern states will get in FY22 and over the entire 5-year period. Note that the federal government will pay up to 80% of the cost of a state's program(s). The state or other sources must match 20%. https://cleanenergy.org/blog/unpacking-the-new-5b-national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-program/

And here's the total 5-year allocation to each state: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/evs_5year_nevi_funding_by_state.cfm
 

Gator42

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You had me at "Elon is a dbag."

+1!
Earnest Q on this: I seem to recall only generous heapings of Elon can do no wrong not that long ago…Is this a recent phenomenon with the Twitter thing or has there always been a strong anti Elon constituency?
 

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Earnest Q on this: I seem to recall only generous heapings of Elon can do no wrong not that long ago…Is this a recent phenomenon with the Twitter thing or has there always been a strong anti Elon constituency?
I can't speak for anyone else, but from my perspective, I never have held the opinion that Elon could do no wrong.

For me, I started to develop the "dbag" opinion when he:
  • complained about coronavirus restrictions and showed no concern for the safety and health of his workforce.
  • went on the Joe Idiot Rogan podcast to spread misinformation.
  • attacked a rescue worker attempting to save kids in a cave as a "pedo" without any reason or evidence to the same.
  • He showed the same disdain for his workforce when he demanded everyone return to the office or quit despite the evidence that a hybrid model has many advantages for positions where WFH is feasible.
  • Sets policies at TESLA to treat his customers like total garbage.
  • Generally speaking, he lacks empathy, talks out of his ass, makes promises that he can't keep, and insults people at will.
He did however start the EV revolution, and we owe him a debt of gratitude or that.
 

Gator42

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I can't speak for anyone else, but from my perspective, I never have held the opinion that Elon could do no wrong.

For me, I started to develop the "dbag" opinion when he:
  • complained about coronavirus restrictions and showed no concern for the safety and health of his workforce.
  • went on the Joe Idiot Rogan podcast to spread misinformation.
  • attacked a rescue worker attempting to save kids in a cave as a "pedo" without any reason or evidence to the same.
  • He showed the same disdain for his workforce when he demanded everyone return to the office or quit despite the evidence that a hybrid model has many advantages for positions where WFH is feasible.
  • Sets policies at TESLA to treat his customers like total garbage.
  • Generally speaking, he lacks empathy, talks out of his ass, makes promises that he can't keep, and insults people at will.
He did however start the EV revolution, and we owe him a debt of gratitude or that.
Thanks for that. I’ve heard of episodes but don’t really follow Musk in particular. He gets kudos for the EVs and spaceships. Thought maybe the politics of the Twitter thing made people turn…0
 
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Bobthebuilder352

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I can't speak for anyone else, but from my perspective, I never have held the opinion that Elon could do no wrong.

For me, I started to develop the "dbag" opinion when he:
  • complained about coronavirus restrictions and showed no concern for the safety and health of his workforce.
  • went on the Joe Idiot Rogan podcast to spread misinformation.
  • attacked a rescue worker attempting to save kids in a cave as a "pedo" without any reason or evidence to the same.
  • He showed the same disdain for his workforce when he demanded everyone return to the office or quit despite the evidence that a hybrid model has many advantages for positions where WFH is feasible.
  • Sets policies at TESLA to treat his customers like total garbage.
  • Generally speaking, he lacks empathy, talks out of his ass, makes promises that he can't keep, and insults people at will.
He did however start the EV revolution, and we owe him a debt of gratitude or that.
Gratitude? Elon didn’t even start Tesla. Maybe he accelerated the “revolution” by a few years but that’s it.
 

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Gratitude? Elon didn’t even start Tesla. Maybe he accelerated the “revolution” by a few years but that’s it.
Fair point. Those years were critical. TESLA built the first EV infrastructure nationwide and did so without the subsidy that preceded fossil fuel infrastructure across the US.

Musk played a significant part in that. He is to Tesla what Steve Jobs was to Apple.
 

SeaGeo

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So I was noodling over this and I'm a little torn on the requirement for the number of chargers at a location. In rural areas on minor highways I think it would make sense to drop the requirement down to 2 chargers per station.

They should also have an "up time" requirement, charge success requirement (how often is a charfe successful on the first plug), and repair time requirement. Ie maintenance requirement.
 

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So I was noodling over this and I'm a little torn on the requirement for the number of chargers at a location. In rural areas on minor highways I think it would make sense to drop the requirement down to 2 chargers per station.

They should also have an "up time" requirement, charge success requirement (how often is a charfe successful on the first plug), and repair time requirement. Ie maintenance requirement.
I’m ok with the 4 station minimum because it will help avoid some issues with dead stations, blocked stations, etc.

I do agree about maintenance and up-time requirements. Any state not including those in their contracts with partners as part of actually spending this money is quite foolish. The federal requirements for the state block grants should also have included them, so states set at least a minimum standard.
 

Gator42

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I do agree about maintenance and up-time requirements. Any state not including those in their contracts with partners as part of actually spending this money is quite foolish. The federal requirements for the state block grants should also have included them, so states set at least a minimum standard.
This is an important point. Subsidizing zombie stations into existence isn't good policy. It only plays in to the range anxiety fears and objections to EV adoption. Drivers need to know they can rely on mapped chargers at the waypoints on their journey.
 

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SeaGeo

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I’m ok with the 4 station minimum because it will help avoid some issues with dead stations, blocked stations, etc.

I do agree about maintenance and up-time requirements. Any state not including those in their contracts with partners as part of actually spending this money is quite foolish. The federal requirements for the state block grants should also have included them, so states set at least a minimum standard.
Yeah, that's why I said 2 instead of 1 for minor highways. I just don't want a highway with like 100 average daily trips trips or something. You still have some redundancy, but I would rather get more mile coverage in very rural areas than not get it covered at all.

Totally agree about a minimum of 4 for medium and major highways.
 

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Yeah, that's why I said 2 instead of 1 for minor highways. I just don't want a highway with like 100 average daily trips trips or something. You still have some redundancy, but I would rather get more mile coverage in very rural areas than not get it covered at all.

Totally agree about a minimum of 4 for medium and major highways.
You raise a fair point but we have had issues where infrastructure is built and then demand outstrips expectations. Many times dual lane roads are built where triple lane would have been best, thereby needing extra time and money to upgrade.

I am amazed how well EA has built out their network, they have spent $1 billion over the past five years. Of that 40% was mandated in California, so for $600 million they have built out a nationwide network. I am excited what $7.5 billion can do as that is an order of magnitude great than EA spent.
 

Autolycus

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Yeah, that's why I said 2 instead of 1 for minor highways. I just don't want a highway with like 100 average daily trips trips or something. You still have some redundancy, but I would rather get more mile coverage in very rural areas than not get it covered at all.

Totally agree about a minimum of 4 for medium and major highways.
States are supposed to nominate corridors based on some priorities like traffic and underserved communities. Those should mean states are going to focus on the busiest routes anyway.
 

SeaGeo

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States are supposed to nominate corridors based on some priorities like traffic and underserved communities. Those should mean states are going to focus on the busiest routes anyway.
When you get to States like SD and MT, every highway other than the interstates are very rural. I90 is already close to a buyout through SD. Dieselgate funds should cover i-29, so they would be left trying to cover their State highways, which have a tendency to be... pretty rural and low volume.
 

SeaGeo

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You raise a fair point but we have had issues where infrastructure is built and then demand outstrips expectations. Many times dual lane roads are built where triple lane would have been best, thereby needing extra time and money to upgrade.
Yeah, my concern is areas like... highway 14 in South Dakota. That's the primary route to Pierre from the eastern side of the State, but it has very low traffic volumes. Having 2 chargers every 50 miles would be plenty for a long time. Sometimes it's better to defer costs in infrastructure. I am concerned people along routes like that won't be readily accessible via EV, creating some pretty big disadvantages for people that live in those areas. They're already struggling, and if people can't drive through those areas, that removes a decent source of their income.
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