electruck

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I kind of wonder if that's where the difference in range is between the R1T @ 400 miles and the R1S @ 410. For a 10 mile loss I'll take the AT's on 19s or 20s.
So far they have attributed the difference in range to the better aero of the R1S (presumably ranges have been quoted with otherwise comparably equipped vehicles). However, it seems common to lose about 3% ICE fuel efficiency going from AS to AT. According to this article, it seems the biggest differentiator for AT is the higher carbon black tread compound vs higher silica compound of AS. This makes the AT tire more durable over gravel and rock that may otherwise cut/tear/chunk an AS tire. The AS tire will generally be more efficient, ride better, be quieter and give better performance than the AT tire but is not likely to hold up as well as AT off pavement. And to skyote's point, AT also isn't typically your best choice if you're serious about off-roading.

My R1S will be more "dog hauler" than "rock crawler" so AS for me without a doubt.
 

bajadahl

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I just went back and looked... my LX470 were indeed M/S rated and I liked them a lot.... Also did a bit of research and came up with the following. The Pirelli Verde 22" Tire only comes in one size "currently" - Pirelli Scorpion Verde A/S 285/45R22 - At this point I am assuming this is in fact the same tire Rivian is using... We know it's a Scorpion Verde and we know it's a 22.
I compared this to a 275/65R20 (which we know is the AT tire that's being offered) on DiscountTire.com can came up with this:
Screen Shot 2020-08-13 at 8.02.59 AM.png

So the A/S tires give up 2 inches of side wall and 2 inches of height. The tire circumference is also different making swap out more difficult if you can't tell the computer what tires you're running.
 

skyote

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@bajadahl , the tires on the R1S are 275/50 R22 (32.9"). Might not be a readily available tire on the open market, but that's what they are.
 

bajadahl

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@bajadahl , the tires on the R1S are 275/50 R22 (32.9"). Might not be a readily available tire on the open market, but that's what they are.
Pirelli doesn't make it easy to find on their website (Since Rivian isn't a listed manufacture yet) and on Discount Tires website if you choose the Verde on a 22" rim it only offers the tire I mentioned...

Thanks for the update..
 

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So a 90% empty factory. Any side bets gigaFactory Austin is making trucks before rivian? They have like one lift and 4 robots and a stack of tires. You notice how no shots were wide angle of the factory. Just two or three little areas. Heck one even had an 18 wheeler in it to make it look bigger.
Why would they be pushing new expansion projects if they had space available in the factory?

Don't forget the R1T/R1S aren't their only products under development. Who knows how many other undisclosed projects could be taking place concurrently. We haven't seen any Amazon van updates in a while, which could very well be starting to take priority within the factory.

They are only able to show the public specific snippets of the factory. If you piece it together over time we've seen battery development labs, hardware testing labs, R&D labs, design areas, outside views of the revamped paint area/booth, now parts of the product and assembly lines. There's much more going on in the factory than what is shown in this 3 minute marketing video.
 

ja_kub_sz

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With RJ referencing a new 21" wheel we have yet to see, I do remember him saying something about wheel options for the R1T. I know that the first wheel picture I posted was his "favorite 20" wheel" for the R1T on the blue R1T when it was on display at the Rivian Normal event. The second was the 22" wheel for the R1S, and lastly the original rim from the first shown R1T with AT tire package (also a 20").

The majority of trucks now a days have a 22" wheel package (Dodge, Ford, GM), but that doesn't mean Rivian needs to follow suit.

I would imagine that with the size of the AT tire side wall would allow the R1T to accommodate a 22" rim and tire, but maybe Rivian will keep with its off road capable status and offer only a 21" wheel with the AS tire?

Already it looks like we'll have two 20" wheel options and one 21" wheel to choose from when comes time to configure our R1T's for preorder, which is promising.

If I had to make a guess I believe these will be the only wheel options for the R1T with either an AT tire for either of the 20" wheels or the 21" wheel with the "low rolling resistance tire".

From the most recent video I can't make out much other then it appears to have a finish similar to the R1S rim (grey and gloss black) so maybe it'll be similar to the R1S wheel?
 

peashooter

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I'll take that bet. All Tesla has at this point is a pile of dirt.
yes, but they have built an entire factory in china and produced cars, have 20% of a Berlin factory done, and broke ground in Austin in the last 12 months. Rivian has had almost 4 years since closing on the Normal Il plant (already fully built FYI, and has produced zero)
 

jjwolf120

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yes, but they have built an entire factory in china and produced cars, have 20% of a Berlin factory done, and broke ground in Austin in the last 12 months. Rivian has had almost 4 years since closing on the Normal Il plant (already fully built FYI, and has produced zero)
That's all true, but you are still going to lose the bet.
 

electruck

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yes, but they have built an entire factory in china and produced cars, have 20% of a Berlin factory done, and broke ground in Austin in the last 12 months. Rivian has had almost 4 years since closing on the Normal Il plant (already fully built FYI, and has produced zero)
Let's all take a moment out of our day right now to bow down to Lord Elon. :rolleyes:
 

Coast2Coast

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But it's an apples and oranges comparison and bet, isn't it?

First, building a plant in China is nothing like building a plant here. Labor laws, environmental laws, zoning, contracting, inspection and safety rules are completely different. The Gigafactory in Shanghai was built incredibly fast, but that speed won't happen in Austin or in Germany.

Second, it took Tesla 12 years to bring the Model S to market; company founded in 2003, Model S appeared in 2012. Guess what? It will take 12 years for Rivian to bring the R1T/S to market. Company founded in 2009, production started Summer 2021.

And there are other similarities and differences. The point is what?

It took a long time before Tesla produced at volume and it has yet to return an annualized profit, seventeen years since establishment. Profits the last couple of quarters have been based on the sale of carbon offset tax credits. But I'm not knocking Tesla. It's done incredibly well and it's changed the structure and character of the global auto industry. Tremendous accomplishment.

Rivian's privately held. It doesn't have the same reporting & performance pressures Tesla does. Rivian's CEO and Tesla's are like night and day. Rivian's received $3.3 billion in private investment, a 100,000 van order from Amazon and has an order book for at least a year's worth of production. It's done incredibly well but in ways that are the very different than Tesla's accomplishments.

So if you want to lay bets on Tesla versus Rivian, do it for something meaningful. Safety ratings, quality and reliability, profit per vehicle produced, customer satisfaction, environmental impact of their production facilities (including China, Nevada, Germany and Austin versus Normal), and so on. Bet on something meaningful. Mine's bigger (faster) than yours is b.s.
 

DucRider

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yes, but they have built an entire factory in china and produced cars, have 20% of a Berlin factory done, and broke ground in Austin in the last 12 months. Rivian has had almost 4 years since closing on the Normal Il plant (already fully built FYI, and has produced zero)
Rivian bought the shell of a factory that required extensive reworking with no intention of rushing vehicles to the market. Except for COVID, they would be on their announced schedule of production/delivery.

Rivian has a much greater concern over quality with adequate financial resources to fully test their vehicles and assembly lines before pushing product out the the door. While not true today, Tesla has historically been on the brink of going under and needed the immediate revenue from vehicle sales to stay afloat.
The rigorous and thorough testing done by Rivian will go a long way towards preventing issues like bumpers being torn off by driving thru a puddle. They will also have the luxury of fully vetting the manufacturing process to ensure a quality fit and finish (including paint).

Different philosophies and strategies. Both can work, but when you are no longer the only game in town, product quality will become a real issue.

I'm not bashing Tesla, and my Tesla stock investment will go a long way towards paying for my Rivian - but at some point they have to start paying a bit more attention to the details. The Chinese factory is reportedly producing a much better product than in Fremont. Hopefully that will also be the case in both Germany and Austin.
 
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