Sponsored

bmac

Active Member
First Name
Bryant
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
40
Reaction score
93
Location
Portland, OR
Vehicles
2008 Navigator, 2014 Audi S4, 2018 GT350 Mustang
I will be towing a boat when going on camping trips, so I reached out to the Rivian Support team to find out if the Rivian Adventure Network will have pull through charging stations. I noticed that most of the Tesla charging stations require those towing trailers to drop their trailer in order to charge. Below is their response:
Rivian R1T R1S New Official Rivian Adventure Network and Charging Station Info 1616186939228

Rivian R1T R1S New Official Rivian Adventure Network and Charging Station Info 1616186952734
Sponsored

 

Mysta

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
482
Reaction score
553
Location
SC
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Polestar 2, Miata ND2 RF
That is what I thought. So 300kw at anything less than 800V seems to be off the table.

There has been so much speculation on this forum about battery voltage and peak charging Kw. Some seem to act as though they know, the indications from Rivian then seem to contradict those here that purport to know the final answer.

I will be first to say that I do not know the answer. I look at the guideposts along the trail and try to see where they point. Presently, we have some guidance from Rivian that appears to contradict other guidance.

Voltage: It does appear that the battery in the LEs will be around 400V. RJ has stated in an interview that 800V is coming, just not in the first vehicles. He also stated in an interview that 300kw charging would be possible and now the website indicates that 300kw charging will be possible. Since, apparently, you can't get 300kw charging without going to about 800V (more or less), then this is another indicator that 800V (more or less) is coming in the near term.
Buest Guess: 400V now going to 800V soon

Charging kW: The data from Rivian has varied from 160 to the more current 200kw as the charging kw for the vehicles. The charging speeds quoted thus far also point to 200kw charging (180.6kw average sustained for 20 minutes). The engineer in the winter testing video also mentioned testing at 500amps. 500amps at 400V is 200kw. RJ in multiple interviews and the Rivian website have indicated that 300kw is coming.
Best Guess: 200kw going to 300kw soon

LE Vehicle Adaptability: Rivian has said that the LEs will be limited to 200kw at launch. However, some of the responses from Rivian Support indicate that the LEs will be upgraded to 300kw after delivery sometime in the future. I am hopeful but skeptical. The powertrain is designed around a Voltage architecture. A software change doesn't seem likely to change the motors from 400V to 800V. They do have a patent that can split the battery into two parts when charging to allow 800V - 300kw to be used with 400V - 150kw going to each half of the battery at the same time. It could be that the firmware for this switching process is not ready, but the hardware is installed. I am struggling with another way to upgrade existing vehicles to 300kw.
Best Guess: Open

What am I missing?
The battery combine thing is the only thing I could see but again hard to know for sure if it's in LE, I take CS responses with a grain of salt. 300kw at 450v(if what someone said is right) is 666.6 amps, that would be pretty insane.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Threads
69
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
6,455
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S
I will be towing a boat when going on camping trips, so I reached out to the Rivian Support team to find out if the Rivian Adventure Network will have pull through charging stations. I noticed that most of the Tesla charging stations require those towing trailers to drop their trailer in order to charge. Below is their response:
1616186939228.png

1616186952734.png
It will likely depend on the specific sites they are able to obtain. For example, the site in Salida, CO is planning to have at least one pull-through charger. But this takes up more real estate and may not be possible everywhere. We at least know they are trying to accommodate.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
3,143
Location
ORegon
Vehicles
Polestar 2, Ioniq, R1S
That is what I thought. So 300kw at anything less than 800V seems to be off the table.

There has been so much speculation on this forum about battery voltage and peak charging Kw. Some seem to act as though they know, the indications from Rivian then seem to contradict those here that purport to know the final answer.

I will be the first to say that I do not know the answer. I look at the guideposts along the trail and try to see where they point. Presently, we have some guidance from Rivian that appears to contradict other guidance.

Voltage: It does appear that the battery in the LEs will be around 400V. RJ has stated in an interview that 800V is coming, just not in the first vehicles. He also stated in an interview that 300kw charging would be possible and now the website indicates that 300kw charging will be possible. Since, apparently, you can't get 300kw charging without going to about 800V (more or less), then this is another indicator that 800V (more or less) is coming in the near term.
Best Guess: 400V now going to 800V soon

Charging kW: The data from Rivian has varied from 160 to the more current 200kw as the charging kw for the vehicles. The charging speeds quoted thus far also point to 200kw charging (180.6kw average sustained for 20 minutes). The engineer in the winter testing video also mentioned testing at 500amps. 500amps at 400V is 200kw. RJ in multiple interviews and the Rivian website have indicated that 300kw is coming.
Best Guess: 200kw now going to 300kw soon

LE Vehicle Adaptability: Rivian has said that the LEs will be limited to 200kw at launch. However, some of the responses from Rivian Support indicate that the LEs will be upgraded to 300kw after delivery sometime in the future. I am hopeful but skeptical. The powertrain is designed around a Voltage architecture. A software change doesn't seem likely to change the motors from 400V to 800V. They do have a patent that can split the battery into two parts when charging to allow 800V - 300kw to be used with 400V - 150kw going to each half of the battery at the same time. It could be that the firmware for this switching process is not ready, but the hardware is installed. I am struggling with another way to upgrade existing vehicles to 300kw.
Best Guess: Open

What am I missing?
It is most likely that the max charge voltage will be 450V given what has been released (108s pack configuration).
They state "sustained charging over 200 kW" which requires either >500A (very unlikely) or a voltage greater than 400.

Given what we know, it is very likelythe packs will be about 400V nominal with a ~450V max charge voltage.

The split charging patent specifically references 450V and 900V charging - that is what I expect to see implemented.

I agree that the only way for LE trucks to be capable of the 300+kW charging is to have the hardware in place waiting for software to implement it (or do a free upgrade in the future for LE owners).
 

mkennedy1996

Well-Known Member
First Name
Max
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
396
Reaction score
674
Location
North Georgia
Vehicles
R1S, Model X, Model Y
The split charging patent specifically references 450V and 900V charging - that is what I expect to see implemented.
You were very skeptical of this in previous posts. Has the recent 300kw announcement changed that?
 

Sponsored

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
3,143
Location
ORegon
Vehicles
Polestar 2, Ioniq, R1S
You were very skeptical of this in previous posts. Has the recent 300kw announcement changed that?
It still makes no sense to me to put the beefier wiring and other components in to handle 500A if they have the "800V" working. Apparently they won't at launch. It remains to be seen how/if it will be enabled on LE vehicles.

Any charger that can provide the 200+kW they are using as a spec can do a minimum of 250 kW at 900V (most can do more).

It's actually possible that the 200+kW will be at 900V, but they are keeping the amperage lower for further refining. The 500A in the cold weather testing may have been a bit of a red herring - the vehicle they were testing may not have had the split pack hardware, but they were testing the packs ability to take that level of charging. They stated there were multiple teams/vehicles testing specific parameters.

Will the LE charge at 900V/250A and later have a software upgrade to 350A? Hmmmm.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,767
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
I guess I’d rather have slightly lower charging speeds vs. pushing the battery pack too hard to a premature death. Even at 200kW, it’s going to charge faster than my Tesla (which even at 150kW Superchargers spends most of the charge cycle at 65kW or less).
 

mkennedy1996

Well-Known Member
First Name
Max
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
396
Reaction score
674
Location
North Georgia
Vehicles
R1S, Model X, Model Y
It still makes no sense to me to put the beefier wiring and other components in to handle 500A if they have the "800V" working. Apparently they won't at launch. It remains to be seen how/if it will be enabled on LE vehicles.

Any charger that can provide the 200+kW they are using as a spec can do a minimum of 250 kW at 900V (most can do more).

It's actually possible that the 200+kW will be at 900V, but they are keeping the amperage lower for further refining. The 500A in the cold weather testing may have been a bit of a red herring - the vehicle they were testing may not have had the split pack hardware, but they were testing the packs ability to take that level of charging. They stated there were multiple teams/vehicles testing specific parameters.

Will the LE charge at 900V/250A and later have a software upgrade to 350A? Hmmmm.
I think these comments make a lot of sense. I was trying to highlight the possibility of some of these in one of the other topics. There are many things that seem to be open with mixed or confusing messages being sent. Seems awfully close to launch to not share the details, so they may be refining some of what you mentioned before they settle on a launch spec and share the details.
 

mkennedy1996

Well-Known Member
First Name
Max
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
396
Reaction score
674
Location
North Georgia
Vehicles
R1S, Model X, Model Y
I guess I’d rather have slightly lower charging speeds vs. pushing the battery pack too hard to a premature death. Even at 200kW, it’s going to charge faster than my Tesla (which even at 150kW Superchargers spends most of the charge cycle at 65kW or less).
I worry about that as well. One thing to consider is something another member of this forum educated me on.

Because the pack is larger, the amount of energy being applied to each cell is relative to the pack size and therefore less on a 135kw pack than on an 85kw pack. You can charge the Rivian 60% faster than your S with the same energy being applied to each cell (not exactly because of the different cell size 18650 v 21700).
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
3,143
Location
ORegon
Vehicles
Polestar 2, Ioniq, R1S
I worry about that as well. One thing to consider is something another member of this forum educated me on.

Because the pack is larger, the amount of energy being applied to each cell is relative to the pack size and therefore less on a 135kw pack than on an 85kw pack. You can charge the Rivian 60% faster than your S with the same energy being applied to each cell (not exactly because of the different cell size 18650 v 21700).
That's actually another reason to consider holding off for the Max Pack.
I'm still on the fence as to actually ordering the LE (I have one configured) as much of what is in the Adventure trim is either neutral or in some cases in the "Con" column. Would the $7,500 be better put towards the Max Pack? Need more info to decide.
 

Sponsored

Mysta

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
482
Reaction score
553
Location
SC
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Polestar 2, Miata ND2 RF
I guess I’d rather have slightly lower charging speeds vs. pushing the battery pack too hard to a premature death. Even at 200kW, it’s going to charge faster than my Tesla (which even at 150kW Superchargers spends most of the charge cycle at 65kW or less).
Both IMO, we need to get to a point where charging well is not going to murder your battery, re:taycan.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
3,143
Location
ORegon
Vehicles
Polestar 2, Ioniq, R1S
Both IMO, we need to get to a point where charging well is not going to murder your battery, re:taycan.
Rivian charging at 300 kW will stress it's battery less than the Taycan charging at its 270 kW rate. Taycan has a much smaller battery.

Not sure if you are saying the Taycan battery is or is not getting "murdered"
 

Mysta

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
482
Reaction score
553
Location
SC
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Polestar 2, Miata ND2 RF
Rivian charging at 300 kW will stress it's battery less than the Taycan charging at its 270 kW rate. Taycan has a much smaller battery.

Not sure if you are saying the Taycan battery is or is not getting "murdered"
Well that 100% depends if it has a buffer like Taycan or not, and the charging curve. If R1T is 300 miles at using 100% of battery then you're wrong, if its 90% of battery, it's pretty close but again would depend on the curve(at 900v)
 

bajadahl

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alan
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
385
Reaction score
981
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Lexus LX470
Occupation
IT
Got bored but safe to say it's about 600 (436 marked)
1616203467111.png
ok - I'll bite.... what is the color coding for? I'm gonna need a legend....
Sponsored

 
 




Top