Sponsored

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
If the initial vehicles will never be capable of the higher charge rates, that is likely to move me away from the LE and delay purchase.
If they do not have provision for V2G/H (or an OTA update to enable the CCS specs when finalized), that is enough to give significant consideration to a delay.

900V charging and V2G/H are significant advances that a high end EV should include at this point (IMO).
I certainly hope RJ and the team understands the serious potential fallout this shortcoming represents. I'd love to stay with the LE, but to know 900v may be right around the corner and available on all other Rivians soon, that takes some of the wind out of my sail, just not sure if it yet takes the wind out of my sale.
Sponsored

 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
I certainly hope RJ and the team understands the serious potential fallout this shortcoming represents. I'd love to stay with the LE, but to know 900v may be right around the corner and available on all other Rivians soon, that takes some of the wind out of my sail, just not sure if it yet takes the wind out of my sale.
Before I got sidetracked by the 900 volt charging issue, I came to this thread to lobby for the next generation of RAN stations. My hope is that it will fill in some of the significant geographic holes across the country. I've already made a number of comments relating to South Eastern and Central Oregon along with Western Idaho, but certainly hope everyone weighs in on the topic, mentioning critical gaps you may note.

Obviously, the Destination Stations are a trademark of what Rivian is all about, and I really admire what we're seeing for the first wave of the rollout. The concern I have is to make certain we don't have dead spots that keep us from even getting to the many great destinations around the country. Bad enough that a charge may be slower due to any limitations of our vehicles, but having "no-roll zones" in parts of the country would be a real shortfall.
 

SteveInBend

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Threads
17
Messages
383
Reaction score
642
Location
Bend, Oregon
Vehicles
2022 El Cap R1T
Occupation
Retired
In addition to Lakeview, OR, I'd like to see a RAN station in Susanville, CA. That would give an option between Klamath Falls to the northwest or Lakeview to the north. Currently there's no way to get from Central Oregon to Reno/Carson City, NV without taking I-5 to Sacramento and over I-80.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,768
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
Evanston, WY please!!! Not likely since they are showing one in Rock Springs. Maybe EA will put one there.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
In addition to Lakeview, OR, I'd like to see a RAN station in Susanville, CA. That would give an option between Klamath Falls to the northwest or Lakeview to the north. Currently there's no way to get from Central Oregon to Reno/Carson City, NV without taking I-5 to Sacramento and over I-80.
Steve,

You are spot on! I think a handful of even small RAN sites in remote towns at distance from existing EVSE infrastructure would kill the range anxiety that some of the charging map-gaps create. I would rather not have to rely on the Interstates to get around these no-roll zones. Also, I'd love to know I can explore a remote area but still have go-go juice close enough to allow me to meander, much like I do throughout the far reaches of this forum.

I have to believe that some store, restaurant, or tourist attraction would embrace a charger or two that would give shoppers, diners, or Adventurers a good reason to stick around for 45 minutes or more. Yeah, I know these L3 chargers are expensive and can be complicated in small towns, but EVs are coming, and someone will want to lure them in. Salida serves as a role model to smaller remote towns and cities around the country. I'd like to think future rollouts will address this concern, but you can't get what you don't ask for....
 

Sponsored

Billyk24

Well-Known Member
First Name
William
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
108
Reaction score
39
Location
PA
Vehicles
Ford C-Max Energi, Premium Mach-E ordered
Occupation
health care
As for the Charging rate of 200kW, we hope the charging curve is better than what Tesla Model 3 vehicles sometimes obtain. The curve may hit 250kW under optimum conditions but only for a short time frame. A charging curve demonstrated by Audi has to be similar to what Rivian is promising since Rivian is stating a much greater range per time frame than even Tesla advertises. One should remember that the actual power output, environmental factors and other will also influence the actual charging rate/curve at each location.

Rivian R1T R1S New Official Rivian Adventure Network and Charging Station Info tesla superchagine model 3 at 250 kW


Rivian R1T R1S New Official Rivian Adventure Network and Charging Station Info audi verse tesla charge cuve
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,768
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
As for the Charging rate of 200kW, we hope the charging curve is better than what Tesla Model 3 vehicles sometimes obtain. The curve may hit 250kW under optimum conditions but only for a short time frame. A charging curve demonstrated by Audi has to be similar to what Rivian is promising since Rivian is stating a much greater range per time frame than even Tesla advertises. One should remember that the actual power output, environmental factors and other will also influence the actual charging rate/curve at each location.

tesla superchagine model 3 at 250 kW.jpg


audi verse tesla charge cuve.jpg
I charged my 2015 Model S today and somewhat paid attention to the power draw. Battery was at about 20% full and it was a 150kW supercharger. It started (and peaked) at 73kW and then tapered down to about 40kW at 80% full. I’m thinking that despite the lower efficiency of the Rivian, it will still charge faster than my Tesla.
 

Billyk24

Well-Known Member
First Name
William
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
108
Reaction score
39
Location
PA
Vehicles
Ford C-Max Energi, Premium Mach-E ordered
Occupation
health care
The older Tesla can not take advantage of V3 rates. I understand it as these older vehicles were capped at 90kW charging rates. Tesla upped newer versions to 120kW rates. Then last year(?), Tesla introduced V3 charging stations with 250kW rates. However, only newer Teslas can charge at these rates. Thus providing a reason for owners to purchase something newer and "faster".
 

whyasky

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
240
Reaction score
444
Location
Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
R1T, ID.4
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not too fussed on 900V architecture. The key for me is that this car will charge 140 miles in 20 minutes with sustained rates over 200kW when the LE is... launched. When they do get to higher voltage architecture enabling the 350kW rates at RAN and EA, this will only cut the 20 minutes down to say 13 or 15 minutes depending on the revised taper rates. There may be other efficiencies or benefits from the higher voltage, but I don't think it will really change the use case of the vehicle, either on a daily basis commute or when traveling long distance, which isn't every day for most consumers.

That said, vehicle to grid would be a game changer. With a battery of this size, you're talking about some pretty significant back up power. Certainly puts a tesla power wall to shame. I'd be excited to have this but I'm guessing that's a few years away for rivian. And Rivian, if you're listening, please feel free to prove me wrong by OTA update in my first year of ownership!
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,768
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
The older Tesla can not take advantage of V3 rates. I understand it as these older vehicles were capped at 90kW charging rates. Tesla upped newer versions to 120kW rates. Then last year(?), Tesla introduced V3 charging stations with 250kW rates. However, only newer Teslas can charge at these rates. Thus providing a reason for owners to purchase something newer and "faster".
I am buying sometching newer and faster. Just not a Tesla. I guess that backfired on them, eh? ?
 

Sponsored

cwoodcox

Well-Known Member
First Name
Corey
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
182
Reaction score
201
Location
Montreal, QC
Vehicles
2012 Ford Expedition
Occupation
Software Engineer
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not too fussed on 900V architecture. The key for me is that this car will charge 140 miles in 20 minutes with sustained rates over 200kW when the LE is... launched.
You’re not the only one. I don’t think the lack of specific data on voltage and power and charge rates is a pre-production thing. I think it’s an Apple thing.

Apple has never published clock speed or memory specs on its mobile architecture (iPhone/iPad), just the chip name (A13 Bionic in my iPhone 11 Pro) and things like 20% faster and 30% lower power consumption, etc. Their Macs have had detailed specs around clock speed, number of cores, chip family, etc., presumably because Intel wanted them to.

With the move to M1, clock speed is absent from any official Apple materials, just like on iPhone. This is intentional, because they can squeeze way more performance out of the chip, so the clock speed comparison isn’t representative of real-world experience.

I realize it doesn’t align perfectly, but Rivian don’t want you to worry about voltage or charging/battery architecture and use it to compare their offering to someone else’s. They will focus on making their claim (140 miles of range in 20 minutes) happen, and nothing more, because that’s what matters to everyday people using the product. I would be very surprised if that changes at all once production starts.
 

MReda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
488
Reaction score
818
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicles
Audi S4, Lexus LX470
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not too fussed on 900V architecture. The key for me is that this car will charge 140 miles in 20 minutes with sustained rates over 200kW when the LE is... launched. When they do get to higher voltage architecture enabling the 350kW rates at RAN and EA, this will only cut the 20 minutes down to say 13 or 15 minutes depending on the revised taper rates. There may be other efficiencies or benefits from the higher voltage, but I don't think it will really change the use case of the vehicle, either on a daily basis commute or when traveling long distance, which isn't every day for most consumers.
Not just you, I agree for the exact reason you pointed out.
 

Billyk24

Well-Known Member
First Name
William
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
108
Reaction score
39
Location
PA
Vehicles
Ford C-Max Energi, Premium Mach-E ordered
Occupation
health care
But....the 140 miles of range in 20 minutes is for.....10-35% state of charge? If you pull into the Rivian charger with 50% state of charge in you hvb, are you really going to get 140 miles of range in 20 minutes or is it going to be 80 miles of range in 20 minutes? This is where information about the charging curve will be helpful. Is the charging curve flat to around 80% state of charge like the Audi or...is there a taper like almost all of the other electric vehicles. Would the Rivian 800V battery pack make a flat charging curve to 80% while Rivian's 400 V battery pack has a taper?

It would be nice to know this before the vehicle is actually in production.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
But....the 140 miles of range in 20 minutes is for.....10-35% state of charge? If you pull into the Rivian charger with 50% state of charge in you hvb, are you really going to get 140 miles of range in 20 minutes or is it going to be 80 miles of range in 20 minutes? This is where information about the charging curve will be helpful. Is the charging curve flat to around 80% state of charge like the Audi or...is there a taper like almost all of the other electric vehicles. Would the Rivian 800V battery pack make a flat charging curve to 80% while Rivian's 400 V battery pack has a taper?

It would be nice to know this before the vehicle is actually in production.
My feeling is that if we're on the cusp of going with 900v charging, and that's what future Rivians will work from, it would be a shame to miss that mark with just the earliest of vehicles. We'll always be close to the "next big thing", but this would seem to negatively delineate the LE R1's from the later versions of the same line. It's possible that it will hurt resale or trade-in values for those who plan to sell or trade them in. For those of us who plan to be buried in them in forty years, maybe it's not such a big deal. Let's call it "Under-roading".
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
1,261
Reaction score
1,560
Location
Arizona
Vehicles
R1T, Mach E, Hummer EV SUT
Occupation
Engineer
My feeling is that if we're on the cusp of going with 900v charging, and that's what future Rivians will work from, it would be a shame to miss that mark with just the earliest of vehicles. We'll always be close to the "next big thing", but this would seem to negatively delineate the LE R1's from the later versions of the same line. It's possible that it will hurt resale or trade-in values for those who plan to sell or trade them in. For those of us who plan to be buried in them in forty years, maybe it's not such a big deal. Let's call it "Under-roading".
GM and Hyundai have announced 800V charging in their newest vehicles, so that is now state of the art. GM is at 350KW for the Hummer, and also likely for the new Sierra/Silverado/Escalade EVs. Not sure what Ford will do with the F-150 EV, but these new trucks are getting 200KWH batteries and 350KW should not be an issue for charging.
Sponsored

 
 




Top