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jambaman84

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Was just talking to Rivian about what battery is better, LFP or what they currently have.. and this is what they told me..

We are using an NCA battery cell chemistry in these packs. Later this year, we’ll introduce an LFP battery cell chemistry for our Standard pack as previously announced. We will be introducing a new battery pack based on this chemistry which includes both high nickel calls and LFP cells. We believe this will be beneficial to customers as they can offer enhanced durability cycles. So I believe if you upgrade it at a later point it will be more beneficial.​

They didn't give a timeframe, but said they will announce it in their newsletter when the time comes.

Very interesting.
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Dark-Fx

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Mixed chemistry in the same pack? Color me intrigued. Maybe an attempt to avoid the poor characteristicts of each?
 

NineElectrics

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Mixed chemistry in the same pack? Color me intrigued. Maybe an attempt to avoid the poor characteristicts of each?
My read remains the same: they're still limited by supply of the good chemistries and it's hurting their ability to make more cars. Thus, no real max pack. Now they want to ramp production but they still can't get batteries, because they screwed up their long term supply deals (or, rather, were asleep at the wheel and didn't lock in when they should have). So, cut the good packs with LFP filler. Poorer cold weather performance, and heavier, but not that much heavier, and maybe they can offer a real max pack this way, because now the max. pack isn't threatening their ability to sell non-max pack cars with good cells.
 

Dark-Fx

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exactly.. im interested in this too..
Possible it's just their new pack architecture that can be either NMC or LFP batteries internally, and not both, and this was just worded funny. But now I'm trying to think of all the ways to do split chemistry, and that seems counter to trying to keep the packs as cheap as possible.
 

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SeaGeo

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I'm assuming you were talking to customer support? This sounds like just poor communication and they may maintain an LFP option and an NCA option for the standard pack rather than the idea of a mixed chemistry in a single pack.
 

SeaGeo

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Possible it's just their new pack architecture that can be either NMC or LFP batteries internally, and not both, and this was just worded funny. But now I'm trying to think of all the ways to do split chemistry, and that seems counter to trying to keep the packs as cheap as possible.
There's a company that does a split chemistry for a longer range pack, but trying to mix LFP and NMC or NCA feels like a hell of a hurdle given the voltage profile differences.
 

Dark-Fx

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There's a company that does a split chemistry for a longer range pack, but trying to mix LFP and NMC or NCA feels like a hell of a hurdle given the voltage profile differences.
Rivian does have a patent that sortof maybe would cover how they could do this. But the actual implementation details are vauge like most patents tend to be.

https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/11794585

Claims
1. A system, comprising: an electrical circuit of an electric vehicle comprising: a plurality of power supplies;
Edit: Diagram from the patent.
Rivian R1T R1S New Battery Pack coming soon says Rivian... combination High Nickel and LFP cells 🔋 1707515229845
 
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dleewla

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"upgrade it at a later point"? what does that mean?
 

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zefram47

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I'm assuming you were talking to customer support? This sounds like just poor communication and they may maintain an LFP option and an NCA option for the standard pack rather than the idea of a mixed chemistry in a single pack.
Do we know the chemistry of the Large / Max pack at this point? Isn't it NMC, and I assume NMC 811? Unless I'm mistaken, mention of NCA chemistry is actually new. Apparently when Tesla was using NCA they were recommending 90% for the daily charge rate vs 80% for NMC, so again more daily range available for the pack size. That would put Standard+ and Large daily usable range pretty similar assuming NCA for Standard+ (121 kWh) and NMC for Large (131 kWh)...or 108.9 kWh vs 104.8 kWh, so the Standard+ might have more daily capacity.
 

dleewla

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That part was for me, so instead of buying an R1T now.. I should wait until the new battery comes out and purchase it then.
ah got it. i thought he was saying Rivian would be offering some type of battery upgrade program. if i were getting the standard pack, i would definitely wait for LFP. being able to charge to 100% all the time would offset the shorter range. tbh, right now would be the worst time to buy the Standard pack. plus Rivian is making other improvements later this so id wait for those as well.
 
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seanocono

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Haha. I like how you say, “Was just talking to Rivian…”

Were you speaking with RJ, or a customer service rep? There’s a massive difference in the credibility of the source.
 
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jambaman84

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Haha. I like how you say, “Was just talking to Rivian…”

Were you speaking with RJ, or a customer service rep? There’s a massive difference in the credibility of the source.
I'd love to meet the person who has a direct line to RJ.. it's Rivian customer service I spoke to. Pretty sure 99.99% of all contact would be through them.
 

edman007

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Mixed chemistry in the same pack? Color me intrigued. Maybe an attempt to avoid the poor characteristicts of each?
I bet tax credit stuff. 50% of the pack needs to be made in North America. So what if half the cells are made in North America, and half made somewhere else?

My read remains the same: they're still limited by supply of the good chemistries and it's hurting their ability to make more cars. Thus, no real max pack. Now they want to ramp production but they still can't get batteries, because they screwed up their long term supply deals (or, rather, were asleep at the wheel and didn't lock in when they should have). So, cut the good packs with LFP filler. Poorer cold weather performance, and heavier, but not that much heavier, and maybe they can offer a real max pack this way, because now the max. pack isn't threatening their ability to sell non-max pack cars with good cells.
I saw a video somewhere, and they said the LFP pack on the EDV is made in China. I think their plan was to buy fully built LFP packs from BYD or someone in China. The new IRA kinda screwed up those plans as that would completly disqualify their low end vehicles for the tax credit.
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