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[Donald Stanfield]

Can you list the specific items both in styling and then details that you feel are leaps and bounds better than than G1 interior? Just trying understand better what I am apparently missing that is 20% better in an Ascend interior over a G1 interior.

The stitching, the color palette, the seats, the bronze accents, the bronze stitching. There are two different colors of stitching, there is much more stitching throughout, there are plaid accents throughout, the seat backs are covered in grey cloth instead of big chunks of plastic. Even the window buttons and cupholders have the bronze accents. The wood is nicer as well. Last thing is the slate sky palette is only available in ascend and that is by far my favorite interior.

There are little details throughout the entire interior that bring it up to the level you’d expect for a 100k dollar car. It’s nice enough that I had a bunch of family looking at my car and every single one commented about how nice the interior looked. I didn’t get the same level of compliments on my gen 1 interior.

There aren’t some big earth shattering changes but the gen 1 didn’t need those. It’s small details sprinkled throughout the cabin that make the premium experience.

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[R1Tom]

The stitching, the color palette, the seats, the bronze accents, the bronze stitching. There are two different colors of stitching, there is much more stitching throughout, there are plaid accents throughout, the seat backs are covered in grey cloth instead of big chunks of plastic. Even the window buttons and cupholders have the bronze accents. The wood is nicer as well. Last thing is the slate sky palette is only available in ascend and that is by far my favorite interior.

There are little details throughout the entire interior that bring it up to the level you’d expect for a 100k dollar car. It’s nice enough that I had a bunch of family looking at my car and every single one commented about how nice the interior looked. I didn’t get the same level of compliments on my gen 1 interior.

There aren’t some big earth shattering changes but the gen 1 didn’t need those. It’s small details sprinkled throughout the cabin that make the premium experience.

Don't get me wrong...it all does look very nice....but to me most of that I would categorize more as personal preference versus being leaps and bounds better. Now...maybe to your eye...those colors are leaps and bounds better...and that is great.

I put stitching, color pallet, bronze accents, and bronze stitching as visual preference.

The seats I have heard are more comfortable, but now with 52k on my G1 I can't say I find the G1 seats in anyway lacking comfort. And I actually prefer the stitching pattern (matches the headlight pattern) of the non-Ascend and the added elegance of the cloth strip up the center. Versus the somewhat plain seat stitching of the Ascend.

And as far as the gobs of plastic you reference on the backs of the seats...I like the durability of the plastic, which has a nice overall pattern to it and appearance. Passengers and kids get their feet on there and plastic cleans up real easy. And the plastic that Rivian uses has a premium feel to it.

I just feel the interior of both the non-Ascend and the Ascend ultimately feel very premium to me. I don't see the non-Ascend lacking.

 

[meshugy]

I agree with what @R1Tom is saying here. The original Adventure trim already had the perfect balance of premium feel, utility, and understated beauty. I guess I’d have to see the Ascend in person (maybe a trip to the Rivian pop up in Seattle is in order,) but from the photos it looks great but not so much as to make me crave it in any way. Also, I prefer black interiors so the Ocean Coast and Slate Sky are lost on me, but I will admit the Slate Sky is a work of art.

I’m totally turned off by both cheap looking plasticy interiors (think Kia EV9) and over the top, grandiose luxury (I.e. Lucid.) Rivian’s original Adventure trim hit the sweet spot between quality and austerity, personally wouldn’t change a thing (although I see they stopped putting chrome on the pedals for Gen 2 which is a bit of bling I really like.)

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Don't get me wrong...it all does look very nice....but to me most of that I would categorize more as personal preference versus being leaps and bounds better. Now...maybe to your eye...those colors are leaps and bounds better...and that is great.

I put stitching, color pallet, bronze accents, and bronze stitching as visual preference.

The seats I have heard are more comfortable, but now with 52k on my G1 I can't say I find the G1 seats in anyway lacking comfort. And I actually prefer the stitching pattern (matches the headlight pattern) of the non-Ascend and the added elegance of the cloth strip up the center. Versus the somewhat plain seat stitching of the Ascend.

And as far as the gobs of plastic you reference on the backs of the seats...I like the durability of the plastic, which has a nice overall pattern to it and appearance. Passengers and kids get their feet on there and plastic cleans up real easy. And the plastic that Rivian uses has a premium feel to it.

I just feel the interior of both the non-Ascend and the Ascend ultimately feel very premium to me. I don't see the non-Ascend lacking.

Details are what make a premium product. It’s the difference between a college art student and a gallery artist. Styling is subjective sure, but the fact that the details exist are what make the product the grade it is.

As you go up in price you should go up in detail. That’s why if you buy a Rolls Royce you can go to the factory and pick out all those little details for yourself.

The adventure trim is enough for you which is fine but I disagree with classifying them as equal, they are not. One has a higher level of fine detail and that isn’t open for debate.

 

[R1Tom]

Details are what make a premium product. It’s the difference between a college art student and a gallery artist. Styling is subjective sure, but the fact that the details exist are what make the product the grade it is.

As you go up in price you should go up in detail. That’s why if you buy a Rolls Royce you can go to the factory and pick out all those little details for yourself.

The adventure trim is enough for you which is fine but I disagree with classifying them as equal, they are not. One has a higher level of fine detail and that isn’t open for debate.

You are super impressed by the changes...that is great....I am not as impressed. Like I said...I do find them attractive but I don't see the level of difference you do.

You said leaps and bounds better...then infer that at $100k the adventure trim wouldn't be appropriate...and now infer that the Ascend is a premium product but the Adventure is not.

I concede that they aren't equal. The Ascend does have some added detail(although with regard to seat stiching...I feel the Adventure seats actually look more premium with the added contrast of the cloth strip...if they had been released in reverse I suspect we would be hearing about how nice that added contrast is with that cloth strip running up center). I just can't get to the same level of excitement you have for the trim.

I feel even the Adventure trim is fitting in a six figure vehicle. The press and even Munro said Rivian over delivered in the interior. By alot. That does make it tough to market a newer higher level trim...and Rivian did a commendable job with a relatively low cost add...that infers more than it is...and many agree...so that is a good execution. But I suspect if we were able to see the bill of materials on all the changed parts...it wouldn't add up to very much.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You are super impressed by the changes...that is great....I am not as impressed. Like I said...I do find them attractive but I don't see the level of difference you do.

You said leaps and bounds better...then infer that at $100k the adventure trim wouldn't be appropriate...and now infer that the Ascend is a premium product but the Adventure is not.

I concede that they aren't equal. The Ascend does have some added detail(although with regard to seat stiching...I feel the Adventure seats actually look more premium with the added contrast of the cloth strip...if they had been released in reverse I suspect we would be hearing about how nice that added contrast is with that cloth strip running up center). I just can't get to the same level of excitement you have for the trim.

I feel even the Adventure trim is fitting in a six figure vehicle. The press and even Munro said Rivian over delivered in the interior. By alot. That does make it tough to market a newer higher level trim...and Rivian did a commendable job with a relatively low cost add...that infers more than it is...and many agree...so that is a good execution. But I suspect if we were able to see the bill of materials on all the changed parts...it wouldn't add up to very much.

It's not about the price of the add ons, it's about the level of detail. Go look in a 3 series BMW then go in a 7 Series. Spend some time in both, really look around. The things separating those two are little details and execution not necessarily significant material changes. Those cars have a considerable price delta between them, so there will be material upgrades, too, but the big change is the level of detail.

The Ascend is the premium product and the Adventure isn't, that is an accurate statement because that's how Rivian positioned those two trims with the corresponding prices to match. It doesn't mean the Adventure trim is shit, it means it's below the Ascend trim. I don't know why you're agreeing with that, yet continuing to argue with me. Munro doesn't know his ass from his elbow when it comes to design, he's not the guy you want giving his opinion on that because he thinks Tesla has good interiors. He's concerned about engineering and doing things for low cost not artistry.

 

[R1Tom]

It's not about the price of the add ons, it's about the level of detail. Go look in a 3 series BMW then go in a 7 Series. Spend some time in both, really look around. The things separating those two are little details and execution not necessarily significant material changes. Those cars have a considerable price delta between them, so there will be material upgrades, too, but the big change is the level of detail.

The Ascend is the premium product and the Adventure isn't, that is an accurate statement because that's how Rivian positioned those two trims with the corresponding prices to match. It doesn't mean the Adventure trim is shit, it means it's below the Ascend trim. I don't know why you're agreeing with that, yet continuing to argue with me. Munro doesn't know his ass from his elbow when it comes to design, he's not the guy you want giving his opinion on that because he thinks Tesla has good interiors. He's concerned about engineering and doing things for low cost not artistry.

Part of what maybe you are missing in this discussion...at least in what I am comparing(and i assume you...since you started by saying you have owned both), which is a G1 Adventure to a G2 Ascend, is that Rivian walked somethings back with the Adventure trim to reduce cost and that were present in the G1 vehicles. The suede like ceiling, metal pedals, base audio system, the wood surround on the rear USB/clothing hangers, and I think some others.

It is a combination of the added color palette trim pattern, some stitching, etc... compared to where they decontented the Adventure trim to over time with the G1 and now with G2...that establishes what they are now marketing as the two tiered trim levels. But the difference with the earlier G1 Adventure and G2 Ascend is not as substantial to me as it is to you...which is all good with me.

I still feel the G1 Adventure is dangerously close to the G2 Ascend with the exception of those, to me, rather minor details you have pointed out.

But if the color palette, stiching, and a few added spots of soft touch material makes it that much better to you...that is great! That means Rivian has succeeded with what they were after. I do think they did an excellent job with the color palette and improvements, just not to the leaps and bounds level you do.

And I still feel that even the standard G2 Adventure would have been acceptable in a $110k vehicle. When I look at other vehicles in the low 6 figure price range...I still feel even the G2 Adventure trim feels appropriate.

Edit....I meant to add that I feel all the R1 offerings from base to new G2 QM....are "premium products". That is the point of the whole R1 line...being a premium product.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Part of what maybe you are missing in this discussion...at least in what I am comparing(and i assume you...since you started by saying you have owned both), which is a G1 Adventure to a G2 Ascend, is that Rivian walked somethings back with the Adventure trim to reduce cost and that were present in the G1 vehicles. The suede like ceiling, metal pedals, base audio system, the wood surround on the rear USB/clothing hangers, and I think some others.

It is a combination of the added color palette trim pattern, some stitching, etc... compared to where they decontented the Adventure trim to over time with the G1 and now with G2...that establishes what they are now marketing as the two tiered trim levels. But the difference with the earlier G1 Adventure and G2 Ascend is not as substantial to me as it is to you...which is all good with me.

I still feel the G1 Adventure is dangerously close to the G2 Ascend with the exception of those, to me, rather minor details you have pointed out.

But if the color palette, stiching, and a few added spots of soft touch material makes it that much better to you...that is great! That means Rivian has succeeded with what they were after. I do think they did an excellent job with the color palette and improvements, just not to the leaps and bounds level you do.

And I still feel that even the standard G2 Adventure would have been acceptable in a $110k vehicle. When I look at other vehicles in the low 6 figure price range...I still feel even the G2 Adventure trim feels appropriate.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue; you agree with me while telling me I'm wrong and it's a waste of time. Rivian believes the Ascend interior is better, so they positioned it ahead of the Adventure. Sure, they pulled back some features on the Gen 1's, but mine was made in Sept '22, so I still had all those features.

If you don't think the Ascend extras are worth it, OK, don't buy one. To anyone with an eye for design, details matter. If they don't matter to you, that's fine. Save yourself some money and stick with the adventure. I said from the beginning that my adventure truck was great, except the interior lacked a bit of polish to take it from good to great. They have achieved that level of refinement now, which makes a significant difference.

When pursuing excellence in any field, the difference between good and great appears small to the uninitiated, but to those in the know the difference is massive. I could see someone write code and not be able to tell the difference between an okay coder and the best one in the world. I know nothing about coding, so I cannot distinguish between acceptable and excellent.

The standard G2 interior is not acceptable in a car at the 110K price point because it lacks the required level of detail. You don't think those details are a big deal, so you don't understand why they are essential. Not everyone knows everything, and it's okay. Style is important to me, and I've spent a lot of time understanding it. I am aware not everyone places the same level of importance on styling, but that doesn't mean that the details aren't significant for those of us who do. There is an objective difference.

The Adventure trim isn't even aimed at the luxury market. Even the two names are a clue.

 

[Golfer04]

I had two gen 1 QM before getting my Tri Max. IMO, the Tri Max is a much better vehicle. Is it worth the additional $$$? That is a different question. For sure it isn't worth the $30,000 more than I paid for both my 2022 QMs. Is it worth the additional over what a dual max performance (most similar vehicle) with the same specs? Yes.

Donald went over most of the positives so won't repeat them, but I do have a few more. Better efficiency, lots less suspension noise/moving around upon take off and most important to me.....much less wind noise and everything works. One touch windows don't need to be reset, tailgate actually goes down when I hit the button instead if just releasing, gear tunnel door opens perfect, vehicle doesn't slow down 5mph in cruise every time I pass a semi (was in service 3 times for it w/o being fixed) and ptc works every time. Fit and finish is excellent.

 

[R1Tom]

I'm not sure why you continue to argue; you agree with me while telling me I'm wrong and it's a waste of time. Rivian believes the Ascend interior is better, so they positioned it ahead of the Adventure. Sure, they pulled back some features on the Gen 1's, but mine was made in Sept '22, so I still had all those features.

If you don't think the Ascend extras are worth it, OK, don't buy one. To anyone with an eye for design, details matter. If they don't matter to you, that's fine. Save yourself some money and stick with the adventure. I said from the beginning that my adventure truck was great, except the interior lacked a bit of polish to take it from good to great. They have achieved that level of refinement now, which makes a significant difference.

When pursuing excellence in any field, the difference between good and great appears small to the uninitiated, but to those in the know the difference is massive. I could see someone write code and not be able to tell the difference between an okay coder and the best one in the world. I know nothing about coding, so I cannot distinguish between acceptable and excellent.

The standard G2 interior is not acceptable in a car at the 110K price point because it lacks the required level of detail. You don't think those details are a big deal, so you don't understand why they are essential. Not everyone knows everything, and it's okay. Style is important to me, and I've spent a lot of time understanding it. I am aware not everyone places the same level of importance on styling, but that doesn't mean that the details aren't significant for those of us who do. There is an objective difference.

The Adventure trim isn't even aimed at the luxury market. Even the two names are a clue.

We just feel different. I agree with aspects of what you are saying...but I don't agree with you in general saying it is as substantial as you have stated.

I feel the entire G1 offering is premium...including the Adventure trim.

Seems a bunch of colors and a bit of stiching means more to you than me. But I do like how the Ascend looks for sure. Just not the degree of delta you seem to see.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

We just feel different. I agree with aspects of what you are saying...but I don't agree with you in general saying it is as substantial as you have stated.

I feel the entire G1 offering is premium...including the Adventure trim.

Seems a bunch of colors and a bit of stiching means more to you than me. But I do like how the Ascend looks for sure. Just not the degree of delta you seem to see.

I get that you don’t think it’s a major difference and I’m trying to explain why. In design the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and that’s what you don’t understand. It’s the concept of composition.

If you were to give Michelangelo some canvas and oil paints he can give you a masterpiece but give me the same materials and I’ll paint something you wouldn’t want on your refrigerator if I was your kid. Same materials, but composition matters.

Composition is a valid concept that matters in the world of art and design. In fact, the reason I don’t like Cadillac is while they use luxury materials they don’t have good composition so it hits you over the head and screams “look how fancy I am” which has the opposite effect.

It’s fine that you don’t see the difference, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I cannot see an atom yet I know that is what comprises matter. A single oxygen atom is the difference between an explosive gas and drinking water, small changes can make a significant difference.

Not everyone cares about the piece as a whole on a compositional basis, but lots of people who are buying at this price point do. It’s why Range Rover has such a following. Range Rovers have poor reliability, average to above average performance and an extremely high price. Looking at it from these measures makes you wonder why anyone would buy one.

The composition on the RR is excellent. For all the negatives I listed the stylistic choices RR made exude class and luxury. Every detail on the higher trim RR’s contributes to a whole greater than the sum of its parts. There is a level of artistry there not present in other cars and that’s why people pay what they do.

As you move upmarket the details I am talking about matter more. I also mentioned Rolls Royce, they are detail kings and what you get for what they charge is being able to choose all those fine details for yourself. Their bespoke nature allows people to create their own design using all these little details.

With the Ascend trim, and the R3X that I saw on display, I am pleased to see that Rivian understands composition and is able to execute on that. Everyone likes nice styling, even if they cannot appreciate every little detail and how those details coalesce.

For those of us who do understand Rivian is an excellent example of how to do it right.

 

[R1Tom]

I get that you don’t think it’s a major difference and I’m trying to explain why. In design the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and that’s what you don’t understand. It’s the concept of composition.

If you were to give Michelangelo some canvas and oil paints he can give you a masterpiece but give me the same materials and I’ll paint something you wouldn’t want on your refrigerator if I was your kid. Same materials, but composition matters.

Composition is a valid concept that matters in the world of art and design. In fact, the reason I don’t like Cadillac is while they use luxury materials they don’t have good composition so it hits you over the head and screams “look how fancy I am” which has the opposite effect.

It’s fine that you don’t see the difference, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I cannot see an atom yet I know that is what comprises matter. A single oxygen atom is the difference between an explosive gas and drinking water, small changes can make a significant difference.

Not everyone cares about the piece as a whole on a compositional basis, but lots of people who are buying at this price point do. It’s why Range Rover has such a following. Range Rovers have poor reliability, average to above average performance and an extremely high price. Looking at it from these measures makes you wonder why anyone would buy one.

The composition on the RR is excellent. For all the negatives I listed the stylistic choices RR made exude class and luxury. Every detail on the higher trim RR’s contributes to a whole greater than the sum of its parts. There is a level of artistry there not present in other cars and that’s why people pay what they do.

As you move upmarket the details I am talking about matter more. I also mentioned Rolls Royce, they are detail kings and what you get for what they charge is being able to choose all those fine details for yourself. Their bespoke nature allows people to create their own design using all these little details.

With the Ascend trim, and the R3X that I saw on display, I am pleased to see that Rivian understands composition and is able to execute on that. Everyone likes nice styling, even if they cannot appreciate every little detail and how those details coalesce.

For those of us who do understand Rivian is an excellent example of how to do it right.

I think we just value things differently.

I value music as art exceptionally high. I would buy a $100k home audio system multitudes before I would buy a $100k piece of art for my walls. Probably why the elimination of Meridian and failure to replace with an equivalent is more important to me than the extra stiching, color palette, and a a some added soft touch pieces. To me....I would trade all of the Ascend details for a Meridian offering. If Ascend color palette and trim details you have mentioned were stand alone options...I personally...would pay multitudes more for a Meridian or better audio system.

And for the vehicles you reference....that also points to our differences in point of view.

If I want a bespoke vehicle, I would either go to Singer for a 911 or Ring Brothers, etc...for an ultimate restomod before I would spend similar money on a Rolls. But that is me. Rolls obviously has customer base that appreciate their take on the bespoke automobile. Most I know don't care nearly as much about the bespoke part as they do about pulling up at the country club in the newest model and don't care it will depreciate faster than the Titanic sank because it can only be...bespoke...for the original owner. Plus no country club cred for a non-current model since they are dirt cheap used.

The people I know with a true car nut interest like I have are more into 911GT3, Ferrari 812 Superfast, etc... than Rolls.

It's why I would buy a Lexus LS700h Overtrail way before I would buy a Range Rover. Long term blue chip ownership experiences. Not this years flashiest Rolls.

Ultimately just a difference of opinion. And I do love what Rivian is doing too. For sure...your truck looks great and I love the look. But I don't think the Adventure trim is as significantly less than you believe it is when compared to the Ascend trim based on my criteria I evaluate to.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I think we just value things differently.

I value music as art exceptionally high. I would buy a $100k home audio system multitudes before I would buy a $100k piece of art for my walls. Probably why the elimination of Meridian and failure to replace with an equivalent is more important to me than the extra stiching, color palette, and a a some added soft touch pieces. To me....I would trade all of the Ascend details for a Meridian offering. If Ascend color palette and trim details you have mentioned were stand alone options...I personally...would pay multitudes more for a Meridian or better audio system.

And for the vehicles you reference....that also points to our differences in point of view.

If I want a bespoke vehicle, I would either go to Singer for a 911 or Ring Brothers, etc...for an ultimate restomod before I would spend similar money on a Rolls. But that is me. Rolls obviously has customer base that appreciate their take on the bespoke automobile. Most I know don't care nearly as much about the bespoke part as they do about pulling up at the country club in the newest model and don't care it will depreciate faster than the Titanic sank because it can only be...bespoke...for the original owner. Plus no country club cred for a non-current model since they are dirt cheap used.

The people I know with a true car nut interest like I have are more into 911GT3, Ferrari 812 Superfast, etc... than Rolls.

It's why I would buy a Lexus LS700h Overtrail way before I would buy a Range Rover. Long term blue chip ownership experiences. Not this years flashiest Rolls.

Ultimately just a difference of opinion. And I do love what Rivian is doing too. For sure...your truck looks great and I love the look. But I don't think the Adventure trim is as significantly less than you believe it is when compared to the Ascend trim based on my criteria I evaluate to.

You aren't understanding what I'm saying so there's no point in continuing this conversation.

 

[R1Tom]

You aren't understanding what I'm saying so there's no point in continuing this conversation.

And you aren't understanding what I am saying. All good by me!

 

[Tejkalra]

I just got Gen2 rivian R1T. Efficiency is a concern. But I have only 70 miles on that truck. My Gen2 R1T had 21400 miles with life time efficiency of 2.41 at 100% all purpose setting with 21" wheels. So I need to rack some miles to find out the efficiency of the Gen 2. If it's 240 miles vs 371 miles stated, that will be a bummer and waste of money. Will not return to rivian.

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