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R_1_T

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I think you make some good points; however, I am not sure you got the target buyer segment correctly.

Although I agree the pickup market is very difficult to crack, I do not believe the R1T is in competition with traditional pickups from the big 3 (or 5 depending on how you target). The R1T is not a work truck, so I don't think it is competing with the F150 Lightning for example.

The buyers of R1T, at least from simplistic impressions on this board, seem to be people who will replace their SUVs or crossovers with something "different" and that does not look like a work truck. R1T buyer is far less concerned about payload, utility, towing ability, etc. than wheel design, 0-60 performance, infotainment, etc.

For example, a buyer of a RAM 1500 PowerWagon or even TRX is not interested in the R1T. They don't see the R1T as a serious 'truck,' they actually ignore it. They want to drive the 'big boy' trucks, which I still haven't figured out what it actually means.

So, I believe the R1T is creating its own segment, competing with CyberTruck, and not just because they are EVs, but more about the intended use of those.
I wasn't referring to buyer demographics in any way - just the market segment itself. Styling jokes aside - the R1T is essentially an extremely capable, BEV Honda Ridgeline. Despite Honda's reputation for quality, it's never really caught on. Partially because it's not considered a "real truck" and partially because it's always had awkward styling. The R1T is a supermodel by comparison and LOOKS more like a traditional pickup.

I agree that most people are using pickups as SUV/CUV substitutes and often end up purchasing vehicles for the just in case 5% scenarios. There's also a size=safety perception which factors into the purchase decision.
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Riventures

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Most full size truck buyers don't care about owning a work truck. Sales figures and demographics make that pretty clear.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I would be surprised if your statement is actually true. I do not have facts in hand.
 

DucRider

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If resources are limited I can see it being the first 3. But what are the limited resources here? It's what... A handful of trucks shipped to the same location at the same time? They should be able to make all of the first drive event trucks in a day or two for 3 to 6 cities. I don't take issue with not starting with Seattle or Denver because of they're "outdoorsy", it's mostly based on their previous communication. There seems to have been an audible there for Detroit, Chicago, and Seattle (which is ok). Denver never was on that initial list, so it doesn't surprise me that it's not now.
An event like this is so much more than bringing a handful of trucks.
Arranging for a location that allows you to build a temporary off-road track. Getting any needed permits, arranging for event insurance that usually names various entities as additional insured, etc., etc., etc. They bring in teams of 15-20 for 4-6 days according to the job postings. Ev In each of these cities they will likely also be doing the at home drives simultaneously

Even staying for 4-6 days they will be limited on the number of pre-order holders that can attend. Appointments are 2 hours. If they run 12 hours a day, that's 6 time slots. If they are able to accomodate 5 parties (of up to 3 people) at a time, they can book 30 reservation holders a day. Not that many in most markets. Both those numbers are probably also on the generous side.

At our tour events, you’ll have an opportunity to drive on-pavement and off-pavement and experience vehicle acceleration, ascents, descents and light rocky sections, providing you with a well-rounded drive experience.
We’ll also have a number of different configurations and options present for you to explore. You can expect tour events to last about two hours including a 15 minute drive experience highlighting vehicle performance.
During a mobile drive, we you’ll experience a Rivian with guidance from of one of our Field Specialists. Mobile drives consist of a vehicle walk-around followed by a 20 minute drive.
For both tour events and mobile drives, you’ll receive an invitation to schedule through your Rivian Account when the opportunity is available in your area.
 

SeaGeo

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An event like this is so much more than bringing a handful of trucks.
Arranging for a location that allows you to build a temporary off-road track. Getting any needed permits, arranging for event insurance that usually names various entities as additional insured, etc., etc., etc. They bring in teams of 15-20 for 4-6 days according to the job postings. Ev In each of these cities they will likely also be doing the at home drives simultaneously
Yep, and wasn't suggesting otherwise. They had job openings for these events in the other markets long ago. So I'm assuming that's not the reason. The events were planned to start in August, right? This just doesn't seem like a resource liked decision to me.

I also don't see them staying in these major cities for only 4-6 days partially for the capacity limits you explained. That sounds more like what they will do as they travel around to smaller markets. The fun thing is we will find out in the relatively near future.
 

Inkedsphynx

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Not sure I agree. If resources were limited and I had to pick three cities to start holding driver events then SF, LA, and NYC would be easy picks based on assumed density of pre-orders and level of EV adoption in the market. No reason to pick Denver and Seattle just because they’re “more outdoorsy”.

Off topic but IMO San Francisco is the ultimate outdoor city. The city is a true city and on any given morning you could go surfing or biking before work and on weekends you are 3hrs from skiing or truly out there wilderness.
The reason to pick Seattle is that there are a ton of pre-order holders up here. We obviously don't have complete numbers, but I know there's a bunch of us on these forums, at least. It's obvious from their previous communications that this area is a focus for them, again evidenced by the Bellevue service center being complete for some time now.

I'd also take issue with your assertion that the city is the 'ultimate outdoor city'. I've lived in the city, and I have lived in Seattle. The outdoor recreation available is better in Seattle, imo. There's nothing the city has that Seattle doesn't, and we're way closer to mountains than the city is. Washington State itself is one of the premier outdoor recreation areas in the country. There's a reason why there is a common trope about Washingtonians and Seattleites being 'outdoorsy'... because it's true. Everyone up here does that kind of stuff, which is why this area is always at the top of sales charts for all the most common outdoor-oriented vehicles.

I'm pretty disappointed that the initial list didn't include Seattle given the above. I was very hopeful I'd get to sit in an R1T this month, but I'll still happily wait. Here's to hoping they're delaying because they're setting up a more adventure-oriented testing experience for those of us up here, since many of us will want to do that type of thing with our Rivians.
 

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electrictaco

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We obviously don't have complete numbers, but I know there's a bunch of us on these forums, at least.
Don’t disagree with this, but I guarantee there are a lot more pre-orders in the Bay Area than Seattle. Also Rivian is still fighting the direct sale law in Washington so they might be delaying those deliveries.

There's nothing the city has that Seattle doesn't
Surfing ?
 

SeaGeo

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Here's to hoping they're delaying because they're setting up a more adventure-oriented testing experience for those of us up here, since many of us will want to do that type of thing with our Rivians.
I'm pretty curious to see what the experience is like in NYC.
 

SeaGeo

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Don’t disagree with this, but I guarantee there are a lot more pre-orders in the Bay Area than Seattle. Also Rivian is still fighting the direct sale law in Washington so they might be delaying those deliveries.



Surfing ?
Your can surf near Seattle.

(Not saying it's good surfing).
 

Inkedsphynx

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Your can surf near Seattle.
Agreed, getting to surfing from Seattle is closer than Tahoe is (was? too soon?) to the city.

Don’t disagree with this, but I guarantee there are a lot more pre-orders in the Bay Area than Seattle. Also Rivian is still fighting the direct sale law in Washington so they might be delaying those deliveries.
There may be more pre-order holders in the bay area, for sure. More people and another high-income area. Not denying that, just pointing out that volume shouldn't be an issue up here, I am positive there are a lot of pre-order holders up here as well.

Good point on the stupid dealership laws though. This pisses me off to no end :sigh:
 

electrictaco

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Your can surf near Seattle.
Ocean Beach SF is some of the best surfing on the west coast (swell permitting) and it’s 15 mins from my house. Closest spots to surf in Seattle are over 2 hours away.

Skiing is closer in Seattle, but 1.5-2.5 hours in the car isn’t that far off from 3.5 to Squaw Valley with arguably the best lift in America (KT-22 ⛷)
 

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DocAdvocate

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https://www.barrons.com/articles/rivian-ev-truck-gm-ford-stock-51630584669?refsec=autos

now here’s a question, would Barrons have written this if a Youtuber did a review instead of a “respected” publication? (I put that in quotes because I know some question any single media outlets respectability). Even though it’s not a massively positive piece for Rivian, it still is a cascading effect from the MT articles that can add up to many more eyes reading about Rivian, probably into new customer segments as well
 

Riventures

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This is interesting as we were just commenting similarly:

Barron's: “The target market for Rivian will be the Connecticut Cowboys or those that don’t really need a pickup for its intended use,”

Hmmm.
 

MReda

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I would be surprised if your statement is actually true. I do not have facts in hand.
Facts are really helpful :)

If you feel inclined to research, you can find statistics on numbers sold and demographics break down. We're talking about three of the most sold vehicles in the country, and most are sold in urban and suburban areas to people with higher than median incomes. To that end, the only way to be truly wrong is to generalize a pickup truck buyer - they are a large and diverse group.
 

DocAdvocate

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This is interesting as we were just commenting similarly:

Barron's: “The target market for Rivian will be the Connecticut Cowboys or those that don’t really need a pickup for its intended use,”

Hmmm.
I found that line interesting as well. I am curious as to what a pickup's "intended use" actually is for it seems like these vehicles are quite capable of doing whatever any other pickup can do.
 

koersontap

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https://www.barrons.com/articles/rivian-ev-truck-gm-ford-stock-51630584669?refsec=autos

now here’s a question, would Barrons have written this if a Youtuber did a review instead of a “respected” publication? (I put that in quotes because I know some question any single media outlets respectability). Even though it’s not a massively positive piece for Rivian, it still is a cascading effect from the MT articles that can add up to many more eyes reading about Rivian, probably into new customer segments as well
From that article, I'd better take a second look at the truck, if it has this sort of towing capacity! :oops:

" its tough as a truck, towing up to 11,000 ponds "
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