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electruck

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The Model S, X, & 3 performance versions all have different EPA ratings for various wheel sizes.
Model
City
Hwy
Comb
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P18
332.2​
319.2​
322​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P19
312.1​
294.4​
304​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P20
312.1​
283.3​
299​
2020 Tesla Model S P19
349.2​
347​
348​
2020 Tesla Model S P21
329.8​
321.9​
326​
2020 Tesla Model X P20
306.6​
302.2​
305​
2020 Tesla Model X P22
276.3​
266.2​
272​
Not surprising. The larger the wheel diameter the farther out you're pushing the mass of the barrel of the wheel and this impacts rotational inertia and efficiency. Interestingly I would expect this to have a more pronounced impact on city driving than highway but these numbers don't really seem to reflect that. Dunno. Perhaps it has something to do with the drive cycles used for city vs hwy of which I am not very familiar.
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Babbuino

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Mmm so the model x with p20 city/ highway epa rating is about the same, but the model 3 which should be more aerodynamic has a 30 epa rating difference? Does this make sense?

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DucRider

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I don't know why we have someone on a Rivian forum so determined to convince himself that Lucid makes a better car than Tesla.
I didn't see anyone claiming the Lucid was a better car - only that it was (likely) faster, more efficient and had longer range. For some, this will make it a better car. For others, Tesla's established track record and Supercharger network will make any Tesla better than any other EV for the foreseeable future. For most, both of these will be balanced with other features both measurable (size, seating, towing, etc) and intangible (styling, exclusivity, etc).
 

Hmp10

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It should be clear if you tell someone why apples and oranges shouldn't be compared and he comes back and says we should really be comparing pomelos that you aren't getting through . . . .
Oh, you're coming through quite clearly.

In post #59 you were willing to engage in quite a bit of analysis of why the Lucid still might not be more efficient than the Tesla Long Range.

Yet, when I asked the simple and rather obvious question of why not compare the Lucid to a Tesla that is more equivalent in power and speed performance, suddenly I'm talking nonsense.

You think I'm determined to buy snake oil from a con man, yet you seem equally determined to argue that no one could possibly beat Tesla's efficiency, even if it means ducking the obvious point that the better comparison is of the Air to the S Performance, not to the S Long Range.
 

Hmp10

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I didn't see anyone claiming the Lucid was a better car - only that it was (likely) faster, more efficient and had longer range. For some, this will make it a better car.
I have a 2015 Tesla Model S P90D. It made me an EV addict, and I love the car. In fact, I'm passing it along in the family when my new Lucid Air arrives. It'll even stay in the same garage.

The reason I am switching to the Air for my next EV is not because of its performance but because it addresses the two main issues I've had with the Tesla: a spartan interior (lacking even basic amenities such as rear seat center armrests) with too little interior storage space and a cramped back seat for adults. If those two things had not become growing issues as I lived with the Tesla, my next EV would have been another Tesla Model S.

It was to address these two issues that I put down a deposit on a Rivian R1S at about the same time I put the deposit down on the Lucid. Until a few months ago, I was leaning toward the R1S. But as more information emerged about the Lucid as beta testing progressed, I started leaning more toward the Lucid. I finally locked in on the Lucid when it emerged that it seems likely to make it to my garage 8-12 months before the Rivian.

However, I'm keeping my Rivian reservation, as instead of becoming the replacement for my Tesla, it might become the replacement a bit later for my Honda Odyssey.
 

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jjwolf120

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I finally locked in on the Lucid when it emerged that it seems likely to make it to my garage 8-12 months before the Rivian.

I don't know where you are on the reservation list, but you have to be pretty far down to get a Lucid before you can get a Rivian. You do know that they are still building their factory?
 

ohmman

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I have a 2015 Tesla Model S P90D. It made me an EV addict, and I love the car. In fact, I'm passing it along in the family when my new Lucid Air arrives.
The Rivian is intended to replace my Model S, which I also love. I was going to get a Y, but the Rivian is a more compelling vehicle, if and when it comes to fruition.

I think you left one negative on the list for the Model S - having to deal with Tesla Service.
 

ajdelange

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Oh, you're coming through quite clearly.

, yet you seem equally determined to argue that no one could possibly beat Tesla's efficiency,
If you think that I am arguing that no one can beat Tesla's efficiency then I am not coming through clearly at all. It is entirely possible that someone can beat Tesla's efficiency. Lucid could beat Tesla on efficiency. Lightyear doubtless does.
 

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I don't know where you are on the reservation list, but you have to be pretty far down to get a Lucid before you can get a Rivian. You do know that they are still building their factory?
I'm one of the early reservation holders for the Lucid and have since upped the reservation to a Dream Edition, which will be the initial production run.

Lucid is still paving parking lots, but Phase I of the factory itself is completed and the production machinery installed. Warehouses in Case Grande are stocked with components from suppliers. While Lucid's factory construction has stayed on schedule, they have had some hiccoughs with suppliers related to Covid-19. None have yet affected production schedules, though, although it's possible they still might.

Lucid is about to start the four-month process of building production prototypes to test out the manufacturing processes. A few of these cars will be sent out to the Design Studios as "marketing cars", but none of them will be sold. The first cars destined for customers will be built at year end, with deliveries scheduled to commence in January/February.

The last I heard, the earliest R1S's won't be delivered until August. I can't find my email with my reservation number, but I put down the deposit on 15 Feb 2019. So I doubt I'd be among the early deliveries.
 

Hmp10

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I think you left one negative on the list for the Model S - having to deal with Tesla Service.
I've seen two very different phases of Tesla service. In the first two years I had only a couple of minor problems with the car. In both cases I reached Tesla service very easily, and mobile service techs came to the house quickly and fixed the car on the spot. In one case, I called Tesla at 9:30 p.m. EDT. The truck was in my driveway at 9:00 the next morning and done with the work before 10:00.

The introduction of the Model 3 with all its production problems and high sales volumes overwhelmed their service infrastructure. Suddenly you had to wait long periods to get a call through to service personnel, the online scheduling was a mess, and when you finally got through you found you had a 2-3 week wait for non-emergency service. At one point my car became undriveable when a weld joint failed in the battery pack and took out the rear drive unit (motor and inverter). It took Tesla two weeks to get a flatbed to the house to haul it across the state to a service center and another two weeks to get it back, leaving me without the car for almost a month.

The problems have since eased a bit, at least in my experience, but two years of miserable service response certainly wiped out the credit I gave them for the first two years of excellent response.
 

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ohmman

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I've seen two very different phases of Tesla service.
My experience mirrors yours, but is just slid back in time a bit. From 2014-2016, I had excellent service. Once the Model X was introduced, everything fell apart. That probably speaks to some degree to the fact that I live in Northern California where Teslas were saturating the market even in 2016. It's been sad watching it happen, as I was always a Tesla promoter because of the entire owner experience. I have a bit of a different taste in my mouth these days, which is part of the reason I've been driven to the Rivian.
 

ajdelange

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Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Getting an appointment is the challenge but with a little skill, practice and luck you can convert an "earliest available appointment" 3 weeks out to one next day.

In Virginia I have access to two service centers - one five minutes away and the other 25. In Canada I also have access to 2 - one 2 hours away and the other 3. Obviously where one lives will have a great effect on how he experiences service but, in many cases, the Ranger can come to you in which case service is most convenient once you get scheduled.

Yesterday we drove the X into the city(2 hrs) for a GPS failure so navigated by the fact that my wife's father's factory was across the street from the Tesla location. We got there an hour early. A very nice, knowledgeable young man went over the problems with me, asked me whether I wanted an X, S or 3 for a loaner and sent us on our way. I could see they were working on the car up til about 10 o'clock last night so thus far I can't complain. Having to drive 2 hrs into the city and 2 hrs home is a PITA - no denying that.

Now if I get a text today that says the psuedo-range oscillator was bad and they can't get one for a month I'll change my tune.

I too am most anxious to see how Rivian handles this important part of vehicle ownership. I certainly expect that there will be the same sort of failure rate and the same sort of failures with the electronics and I expect that the service will, initially, be white glove. But I also expect that it will go downhill somewhat as the system gets fully loaded. Service represents an opportunity for Rivian to shine relative to Tesla as Tesla just does not seem to be able to whip this part of their operation into nautical trim.
 

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I don't know why we have someone on a Rivian forum so determined to convince himself that Lucid makes a better car than Tesla. It should be clear if you tell someone why apples and oranges shouldn't be compared and he comes back and says we should really be comparing pomelos that you aren't getting through and that further attempts are a waste of time. So yes, I think I'll drop out of the dialogue too.
Are you sure you’re an engineer?
 

ajdelange

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I know lots of engineers who eat pomelos. They're great if you can get someone else to peel them for you.
 

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Lucid just released the Sonoma Raceway speed trial results for its 5-passenger Dream Edition:

9.912 sec quarter mile

144.40 trap speed

The auto press is saying those numbers were attained repeatably.

This was with the 1,080-hp Dream Edition 5-passenger sedan with the 113-kWh battery pack.
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