Lucid Air over 500 miles on a charge!

Hmp10

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The Lucid Air tri-motor, which is scheduled for release late next year:



Three notes, according to journalists on the scene:

- The track surface was prepped
- The Air was running Pirelli P Zero street tires (265 mm front, 285 mm rear)
- This car is still in development, with the suspension setup only about 60% sorted so far

At Battery Day Tesla showed a chart of a tri-motor Model S Plaid (also scheduled for late 2021 release) quarter-mile time below 9.0 seconds. No video or journalist reports have emerged showing it, and no specific time has been given.
 
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ajdelange

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Why does anyone care that the Tesla can do 1/4 mile in 300 mS less that the Lucid? That aside, these are numbers derived from pre-production cars.

According to a recent Teslarati article the significant fact is that there are two BEV that are going to deliver 9 second 1/4 mile times and that this spells the end of ICE high performance cars.
 

Hmp10

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Why does anyone care that the Tesla can do 1/4 mile in 300 mS less that the Lucid?
People care for the same reason that people have been obsessing about drag strip times and fractions of seconds since at least the beginning of the ICE hot-rod era. It's fun fuel for daydreams about cars and what cars can do to make us feel more accomplished and generally cooler all around.

Car makers engage in this behavior for the same reason that couturier fashion houses strive to show they can do perfect stitching on sleeve liners before they launch their mass-market lines.

This doesn't mean that many people actually make buying decisions primarily on these factors.

Personally, I would not consider a Lucid without their demonstrating they can engineer a high-performance car. But that is only a condition precedent for me, and they did that well before this tit-for-tat with Tesla got underway.

I don't really care who wins this particular battle down in the depths of drag times and lap times I will never plumb, anyway. I am switching from Tesla to Lucid for other reasons.

But I thought you didn't think we should be discussing these things on a Rivian forum?
 

Jehorton

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Why does anyone care that the Tesla can do 1/4 mile in 300 mS less that the Lucid? That aside, these are numbers derived from pre-production cars.

According to a recent Teslarati article the significant fact is that there are two BEV that are going to deliver 9 second 1/4 mile times and that this spells the end of ICE high performance cars.
It doesn’t spell the end until you can have high performance and range altogether.
 

ajdelange

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The question was actually a rhetorical one but that doesn't matter. With regard to your question: it isn't up to me to decide. I didn't say we shouldn't discuss other vehicles but rather questioned why we did, decided that his was a place to compare BEV technologies and then got really into depth on Tesla's active suspension which resulted in a post which I interpreted to mean I shouldn't have taken it so far away from Lucid so at this point I'm not sure what the purpose is. I find it all interesting and I'll happily explore anything until someone (i.e. an administrator) tells me not to.

As it is a Rivian forum I guess I think that discussion of Lucid's 1/4 mile times or Tesla's active suspension should be somehow in comparison to Rivians.
 

ajdelange

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It doesn’t spell the end until you can have high performance and range altogether.
Which leads to the obvious question: what are the ranges of the ICE cars which have 1/4 mile times near 9 seconds? Both the electric ones are 500 mile cars.
 

Hmp10

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As it is a Rivian forum I guess I think that discussion of Lucid's 1/4 mile times or Tesla's active suspension should be somehow in comparison to Rivians.
Okay, then.

Rivian has posted no quarter-mile times of which I'm aware. They're likely to be slower than Tesla's or Lucid's, because the Rivian is considerably heavier and has less power output.

Tesla does not have an active suspension. It has as adaptive suspension, which is the term it displays on its in-car screen.

Some Mercedes cars use an active suspension. Here is a description of how it works:

"The system uses two small cameras behind the windshield of the car to scan the road that is ahead of the vehicle. This is called the ROAD SURFACE SCAN. This scans up to 15 meters in front of your car as it is driving down the road, and measures the height of the dips and bumps that the road has. Then, the suspension uses the active hydraulics in order to compensate for the bumps in the road. This works up to a speed of 130 km/h, or about 80 miles per hour."

The Mercedes active suspension can actually raise and lower each wheel independently to track undulations in road surface according to a computer-generated map of the road ahead derived from, in the Mercedes case, camera inputs. An active suspension has to know what it is about to encounter before it actually encounters it, in order for the actuators to have time to raise or lower the wheel ahead of the bump or pit. (The early versions of this system were even more speed-limited due to limits on computer processing speeds. These days it works only up to 80 mph because the actuators cannot move the wheels fast enough to compensate for surface undulations above that speed.)

Could you point out how Tesla gets its inputs from the road ahead for its active suspension to go into action and move the wheel before it encounters the surface irregularity?
 

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Which leads to the obvious question: what are the ranges of the ICE cars which have 1/4 mile times near 9 seconds? Both the electric ones are 500 mile cars.
500 miles doesn’t equal 500 miles of travel. My f250 ran the quarter mile, albeit not as fast as in the 9s but in the 10s and had a range of 500 miles. My meaning is the amount of energy a BEV would lose compared to fuel.
 

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My meaning is the amount of energy a BEV would lose compared to fuel.
Your going to have to explain that one a bit.
Essentially fuel=energy.
Are you asking how much range a BEV would lose in a 1/4 mile pull vs the range an ICE would lose?
Or you can look at it as (all other things being equal) an ICE will use significantly more energy in that 1/4 mile pass (much of the energy in gas is converted to heat instead of providing power to the wheels)
 

Jehorton

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@DucRider i think you can understand what I am saying. How much range is lost in that 1/4 mile BEV vs 1/4 mile ICE
 

ajdelange

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Tesla does not have an active suspension. It has as adaptive suspension, which is the term it displays on its in-car screen.
It was not my desire to have to correct you again on your misconceptions about engineering terminology. Once should be enough and cannot possibly be of any interest to the other readers. If you want to understand what these terms mean you can look them up. Please don't wast my time, your time or anyone elses time (not that I think anyone else is reading this) by posting again that the Tesla system is not active. You will get the same answer.

Active means not passive. Any device which takes power from a source other than the system itself to function is an active device. The servo in the Tesla takes power from a reservoir of compressed air (maintained by a motor) and is, therfore, an active system.

Some Mercedes cars use an active suspension. Here is a description of how it works:

"The system uses two small cameras behind the windshield

The Mercedes active suspension can actually raise and lower each ...
The Tesla system does not, as I understand it, raise the wheel but it can lower it. Thus it hasn't as many degrees of freedom as the Mercedes system but as air is pumped into that cylinder it is active control. By definition


Could you point out how Tesla gets its inputs from the road ahead for its active suspension to go into action and move the wheel before it encounters the surface irregularity?
It doesn't have to do that but the way it would if it needed to would be by use of the cameras or by predictive filtering (Kalman filter?) of the accelerometer inputs. The Tesla does not move the wheel before it encounters the surface irregularity. It just tires to make sure that the energy coupled into the wheel does not get coupled into the car itself. See the previous posts for an explanation of how that works.
 

ajdelange

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500 miles doesn’t equal 500 miles of travel. My f250 ran the quarter mile, albeit not as fast as in the 9s but in the 10s and had a range of 500 miles. My meaning is the amount of energy a BEV would lose compared to fuel.
I'm not understanding. My X is rated for 351 miles on a full battery charge and I get 351 miles plus a bit. The Lucid and Plaid S are rated 500 miles. I would expect to get 500 miles on a full charge from each of them given where and how I drive.

So you have a BEV with 500 miles range and an ICE vehicle with 500 miles of range but the BEV does the quarter faster. If that sort of thing is important to you which will you buy?
 

thrill

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Active means not passive. Any device which takes power from a source other than the system itself to function is an active device. The servo in the Tesla takes power from a reservoir of compressed air (maintained by a motor) and is, therfore, an active system.

The Tesla system does not, as I understand it, raise the wheel but it can lower it. Thus it hasn't as many degrees of freedom as the Mercedes system but as air is pumped into that cylinder it is active control. By definition
Trying to fit marketing terms into binary categories is fraught with error. The latest Tesla Model S suspension is, from what I've read (I haven't ridden is a Tesla since the Roadster long ago), a hydraulic damping with electrically modulated valves, which they like to call "active damping". That's not the same as an "active suspension", which doesn't have an SAE definition I could casually find, so it's going to be misused and misinterpreted (just look at the various understandings of self driving levels, which *do* have SAE definitions). But, the term active suspension is generally used with systems that can move the wheel in either direction on demand and up to some limiting speed (due to hydraulic and control reaction time). But, I've also read the Cybertruck is supposedly going to have an active suspension.

Also, from what I've read (from their website), the Rivian will have an adjustable air suspension, where the adjustability is for height, and adaptive damping control, similar to the latest Tesla. There's no mention of an active suspension, as I believe they would have highlighted that as it's a significant performance (and comfort) improvement. It'd be nice to have.
 

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@DucRider i think you can understand what I am saying. How much range is lost in that 1/4 mile BEV vs 1/4 mile ICE
No appreciable difference (a single 1/4 mile pass takes only a percentage of the total charge/gas for either vehicle). Your mpg will be very low or your wH/mi very high - but only for a 1/4 mile. In either case the "lost" range will be much higher than a 1/4 mile, but only a relatively small percentage of the overall range of a 500 mile vehicle. Since I don't know of any 500 mile range sub 10 second ICE vehicles, and exact number is hard to define.
A Hellcat SRT is estimated to burn 1.5 gallons/minute or .25 gallons for a quarter mile pass, but its total range is less than 300 miles on it's 18.5 gallon tank. If it carried enough gas for 500 miles, it would increase the weight and raise the 1/4 mile time to over 10 seconds.
 

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