Lordstown Motors Has Been Faking Orders, Is Actually 3-4 Years From Production: Research Firm

[DuckTruck]

DucRider,

Thanks for all of your insights and photos. I was hoping that one of the complete hub motors was going to be on display, along with a disassembled version to better examine that critical piece of their tech. If any cooling equipment is to be connected by flexible hoses away from the unsprung hub motors, I'm wary of potential/inevitabe leaks and breaks. Either occurrence would likely represent a major issue.

I did notice that their website now allows a pre-order of even single units (with a $100 deposit) while the LOI is still shown as a no-cost way of expressing interest in 5 or more units. Not sure the "pre-order" tab was there before.

https://lordstownmotors.com/pages/tech

Again, thank you and I hope you enjoyed getting to see an Endurance close up and also visiting with the team.

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[DucRider]

DucRider,

Thanks for all of your insights and photos. I was hoping that one of the complete hub motors was going to be on display, along with a disassembled version to better examine that critical piece of their tech. If any cooling equipment is to be connected by flexible hoses away from the unsprung hub motors, I'm wary of potential/inevitabe leaks and breaks. Either occurrence would likely represent a major issue.

I did notice that their website now allows a pre-order of even single units (with a $100 deposit) while the LOI is still shown as a no-cost way of expressing interest in 5 or more units. Not sure the "pre-order" tab was there before.

https://lordstownmotors.com/pages/tech

Again, thank you and I hope you enjoyed getting to see an Endurance close up and also visiting with the team.

They showed this video (or much of it anyway), but did not have anything physical there except the truck:

They have licensed the technology from Elaphe, but say they will be building the motors in-house.

Aptera is apparently also going to use the Elaphe in hub motor, and I see that as a better fit than a truck.

 

[DuckTruck]

They showed this video (or much of it anyway), but did not have anything physical there except the truck:

They have licensed the technology from Elaphe, but say they will be building the motors in-house.

Aptera is apparently also going to use the Elaphe in hub motor, and I see that as a better fit than a truck.

I agree that this application makes greater sense for a freeway cruising, around town Pavement Princess, rather than a truck. Still, I wish Lordstown all the best. Having that pickup-truck-tooled-factory is a huge benefit. Now, if they can just deliver...

 

[Gshenderson]

I did notice that their website now allows a pre-order of even single units (with a $100 deposit) while the LOI is still shown as a no-cost way of expressing interest in 5 or more units. Not sure the "pre-order" tab was there before.

Just be aware that although they say the deposit is 100% refundable, if it goes on their books as an “unsecured interest free loan” (which is how Tesla does it) then you are last in line to get your money in a bankruptcy proceeding. Given the assessment above of their overall readiness (or lack thereof) to come anywhere close to meeting delivery dates, bankruptcy is a real risk.

 

[DuckTruck]

Just be aware that although they say the deposit is 100% refundable, if it goes on their books as an “unsecured interest free loan” (which is how Tesla does it) then you are last in line to get your money in a bankruptcy proceeding. Given the assessment above of their overall readiness (or lack thereof) to come anywhere close to meeting delivery dates, bankruptcy is a real risk.

Those are words to the wise, from the wise. I'll just keep my hundred bucks, and my place in line for the Rivian. Never contemplated doing anything else....

 

[UT Rivian]

NPR recap of the Lordstown/Hindenburg feud with a tiny Rivian blip at the end:

Article

 

[DuckTruck]

They showed this video (or much of it anyway), but did not have anything physical there except the truck:

They have licensed the technology from Elaphe, but say they will be building the motors in-house.

Aptera is apparently also going to use the Elaphe in hub motor, and I see that as a better fit than a truck.

DucRider,

I'm curious as to whether you have any new insights or thoughts about Lordstown and their Endurance after a little time has passed since attending their recent event? After again watching the video of the testing of the wheel hub, several thoughts come to mind. While it does appear to survive the abuse thrown at it, I'd still rather take my chances on a motor that has the cushioned ride that comes with being attached to a suspended chassis.

While the common truck half-shaft issues will be a risk for the Rivians, having those four hub motors suffer the non-stop vibrations and occasional, but inevitable jolts of even small potholes, just seems like a recipe for premature failure. Sure, having a half-shaft fail would be bad, but having a motor puke out would seem way worse.

I'm also concerned about the mass of these things and the impact that has on the suspension system's ability to respond to undulations and steering inputs. I have to believe that that much unsprung mass in the wheel housing will harm the overall handling and ride dynamics of the Endurance.

I know the first rule of the Cavalry is, "When the horse dies, dismount", but every time I see another news piece about Lordstown, I'm baffled by their choice of propulsion, especially given their intended target market/case use as a commercial work truck.

Any new thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, Thanks also for the new "EQS Battery Assmble video" thread.

 

[DucRider]

DucRider,

I'm curious as to whether you have any new insights or thoughts about Lordstown and their Endurance after a little time has passed since attending their recent event? After again watching the video of the testing of the wheel hub, several thoughts come to mind. While it does appear to survive the abuse thrown at it, I'd still rather take my chances on a motor that has the cushioned ride that comes with being attached to a suspended chassis.

While the common truck half-shaft issues will be a risk for the Rivians, having those four hub motors suffer the non-stop vibrations and occasional, but inevitable jolts of even small potholes, just seems like a recipe for premature failure. Sure, having a half-shaft fail would be bad, but having a motor puke out would seem way worse.

I'm also concerned about the mass of these things and the impact that has on the suspension system's ability to respond to undulations and steering inputs. I have to believe that that much unsprung mass in the wheel housing will harm the overall handling and ride dynamics of the Endurance.

I know the first rule of the Cavalry is, "When the horse dies, dismount", but every time I see another news piece about Lordstown, I'm baffled by their choice of propulsion, especially given their intended target market/case use as a commercial work truck.

Any new thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, Thanks also for the new "EQS Battery Assmble video" thread.

I don't see the hub motor being a big detriment for their intended market. The are not targeting the off-road consumer market. Utility fleets, landscapers, etc will likely not stress that setup. Assuming that they get the cooling and wiring to the motors 100% sorted. Would I make that design choice? Probably not, but it does differentiate them from the other trucks coming to market and they are targeting a little bit different user.
If I was a feet manager, there would be more questions about the availability of service (part of their presentation implied that the fleet maintenance shop would handle it, but probably a long term look). The viability of the company long term parts/support would be a big hurdle.

It's not that the jury is still out, it's that the trial hasn't even started. Until they get the design mostly finalized and some nearly production intent vehicles out there logging some miles, there's not much to go on.

The company itself seems to be at least a little bit on shaky ground, and if the final product they offer isn't compelling, the vultures and wolves will feast.

 

[DuckTruck]

I don't see the hub motor being a big detriment for their intended market. The are not targeting the off-road consumer market. Utility fleets, landscapers, etc will likely not stress that setup. Assuming that they get the cooling and wiring to the motors 100% sorted. Would I make that design choice? Probably not, but it does differentiate them from the other trucks coming to market and they are targeting a little bit different user.
If I was a feet manager, there would be more questions about the availability of service (part of their presentation implied that the fleet maintenance shop would handle it, but probably a long term look). The viability of the company long term parts/support would be a big hurdle.

It's not that the jury is still out, it's that the trial hasn't even started. Until they get the design mostly finalized and some nearly production intent vehicles out there logging some miles, there's not much to go on.

The company itself seems to be at least a little bit on shaky ground, and if the final product they offer isn't compelling, the vultures and wolves will feast.

As always, I appreciate your opinions and insights. As I've said earlier about Lordstown, I hope they make it, and make it big. I just have some serious doubts as to that happening. Time will tell...

Thanks again!

 

[Babbuino]

 

[kanundrum]

Ouch. Was watching emme hall talk about it on Instagram.

 

[DuckTruck]

So, 40 miles behind the "Shitbox", yet still 40 miles ahead of the Badger? I'm sorry to hear it didn't go better for Lordstown and their Baja. Was this running with the same hub motor as the Endurance? As has been discussed here previously, that arrangement may be suitable for asphalt, but would take a pounding off-road, especially in a competitive environment. And, yes, I know it was the battery that brought it down, according to these reports.

Out of fairness, I would think any EV would be punished in the Baja race, just by the weight of the battery. The Rebelle Rally was a great test for Rivian because of the precision needed for that type of more real-world challenge, rather than a speed-based competition over harsh surfaces. The same is true of the support role for the Long Way Up.

Even with the amazing off-road capabilities of both Rivian vehicles, I see them more like Trials Motorcycles vs. Motocross Bikes. The Rivians seem better suited for climbing up and over treacherous terrain than flying across the bumps and ruts of the desert at 70+ mph. More the tortoise than the hare. That said, I have every confidence in the world that I won't need to call my Guide to say, "Help! I'm only 40 miles off the road and my battery is at zero!"

 

[Babbuino]

Ouch. Was watching emme hall talk about it on Instagram.

Found it. She added a few pics too.

 

[echerod]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3704308-lordstown-motors-slides-after-going-concern-warning

Looks like the short sellers were right...

 

[UT Rivian]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3704308-lordstown-motors-slides-after-going-concern-warning

Looks like the short sellers were right...

Yep:

Lordstown likely going out of business

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