Looking to purchase your Launch Edition

[LaunchGreen]

I mean this sincerely - not just in internet speak. What a loser.

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[GOLFISH]

Is it true you can transfer a reservation by changing the contact info on your reservation?

 

[gfyrf]

I mean this sincerely - not just in internet speak. What a loser.

Trolls are gonna troll. I troll by day. I troll by night. Mods why have I not been banned yet you can see the same up registered both accounts I’m sure lol

 

[Scott]

Here's what I don't understand. Here is what the same truck I'm ordering would cost now to buy.

Now if you sell it they charge you short term gains on that and in my stocks that I've done that's almost 50%. So if you want the truck and go to order another after paying the tax and the new cost you are at almost $150,000 to break even. Or am I completely off or missing something on this?

Here was my quick rundown given my current config:


Current Cost, pre 3/1 pricing: $80,200
Tax and registration and dest charge: ~$2k (will vary heavily state to state, OR is a no sales tax state)
Sale Price: $150,200 (yes I added 200 bucks to make the next number a nice round number
Profit: 68,000k

Tax Incentive: 7,500
Tax on sale: ~30,000 (will vary heavily depending on state and local taxes)

After Tax profit: 45,500
Cost of replacement, post 3/1 pricing: 95,100 + 2 year extra wait + another ~2k tax, destination, registration, minus another 7.5k tax incentive

Final cost of rivian: 44,100

So basically you end up keeping ~36k cash in exchange for an extra 2 year wait. That is assuming you take the tax incentive and pay the short term capital gains tax. I don't know if taking the tax incentive is technically legal, but people above seem to think it is.

Even without defrauding the IRS and skirting that 30k tax bill, you make a decent return on the truck. I won't judge anyone for saying "I prefer an extra 36k in exchange for waiting 2 more years".

Edit #1: this also ignores the time value of money. Inflation is driving down the real price of that future truck, and you can invest the 36k in the mean time (although inflation eats away at that too)

Edit #2: If you live in a high sales tax state, that also taxes short term capital gains, then you could easily eat away 1/2 of the above listed profit in a heartbeat.

 

[davidaugust]

Here was my quick rundown given my current config:


Current Cost, pre 3/1 pricing: $80,200
Tax and registration and dest charge: ~$2k
Sale Price: $150,200 (yes I added 200 bucks to make the next number a nice round number
Profit: 68,000k

Tax Incentive: 7,500
Tax on sale: ~30,000 (will vary heavily depending on state and local taxes)

After Tax profit: 45,500

Would most people declare the profit? Who reports it on what form to the IRS or to the State?

I mean, when I bought my last new car, I got no deduction for its purchase. When I sold it some years later I took no loss on my taxes for the difference between what I had paid minus what I had received for the used sale.

I suppose there's the risk of a general audit and having the IRS say "hey what about that $150,200 deposit?"

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Would most people declare the profit? Who reports it on what form to the IRS or to the State?

I mean, when I bought my last new car, I got no deduction for its purchase. When I sold it some years later I took no loss on my taxes for the difference between what I had paid minus what I had received for the used sale.

I suppose there's the risk of a general audit and having the IRS say "hey what about that $150,200 deposit?"

Would most people follow the law? I certainly hope so. Tax evasion is no joke, it hurts EVERYONE. Don't do it. If you can't afford the taxes, don't make the purchase/sale.

 

[Scott]

Would most people declare the profit? Who reports it on what form to the IRS or to the State?

I mean, when I bought my last new car, I got no deduction for its purchase. When I sold it some years later I took no loss on my taxes for the difference between what I had paid minus what I had received for the used sale.

I suppose there's the risk of a general audit and having the IRS say "hey what about that $150,200 deposit?"

My understanding is tax laws are pretty "unfair" here. As a private buyer of a vehicle for personal use, you can't claim depreciation or a capital loss on sale, but you do owe taxes on capital gains from the sale of the vehicle. Insert judgy rant on tax laws here.

Now for cars, people historically have rarely sold cars for a gain outside of exotics, collectibles, etc. It isn't until the last few years that the car market has gone so wacko with the supply chain issues that making profit on car sales has become a real widespread thing.

 

[davidaugust]

Would most people follow the law? I certainly hope so. Tax evasion is no joke, it hurts EVERYONE. Don't do it. If you can't afford the taxes, don't make the purchase/sale.

Pretty much just parroting what Elon was telling me at lunch the other day...

 

[davidaugust]

On a more serious note, what Scott mentions might also get you a better vehicle if one has the patience. Most of the issues that new owners are discussing seem to be software issues which will be correctable, but some may be hardware, and, with experience, Rivian is almost certain to initiate at least some changes in their vehicles that they feel are for the better. And of course technology continually marches on so the batteries may be more efficient or the motors more powerful or the tonneau more quiet, etc.

But of course all of that may come at a price that is greater than that which was realized by the sale...always dilemmas...

 

[Scott]

On a more serious note, what Scott mentions might also get you a better vehicle if one has the patience. Most of the issues that new owners are discussing seem to be software issues which will be correctable, but some may be hardware, and, with experience, Rivian is almost certain to initiate at least some changes in their vehicles that they feel are for the better. And of course technology continually marches on so the batteries may be more efficient or the motors more powerful or the tonneau more quiet, etc.

But of course all of that may come at a price that is greater than that which was realized by the sale...always dilemmas...

Or perhaps you would rather have a dual motor / large pack vehicle anyway (that likely would be on an 800v architecture). The car definitely could improve, but you also could just be getting something closer to what you want/need. Almost no one buying the car NEEDS quad motors. So you can add in 6k more savings to the total by opting for dual motors.

 

[cc4711]

Almost no one buying the car NEEDS quad motors. So you can add in 6k more savings to the total by opting for dual motors.

Nearly all vehicle purchases beyond the necessities are emotional. I was never under the delusion that I needed any vehicle I have ever purchased. People were doing okay back in the day of 140 HP short bed compact trucks for all sorts of use cases. No one needs this truck, full stop. (I definitely want it though )

 

[GOLFISH]

Pretty much just parroting what Elon was telling me at lunch the other day...

Elon has thousands of CEO"s on his side and the entire republican party spending billions on republican politicians so they will write tax laws that will save them trillions. Aka trump and Bush and Regan tax cuts that did not trickle down to anyone. And added 32 trillion to the debt. The wealthy don't need to cheat. They just pay no taxes because the laws were written by them

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