Got to love it!

[NWCamper]

Nothing, nothing, nothing

Sponsored

 

[CharonPDX]

You appear to have my trailer's slightly shorter sibling:

I'm curious if you would have gotten better efficiency with the bikes mounted behind the trailer instead of in front of it.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Every Rivian could tow the Lightning on a trailer, but not every Lightning could tow the Rivian on a trailer.

 

[Max]

ICE vehicles have tow consumption numbers published for City and Highway. The range published for EVs is for mixed driving so the range loss in highway speed seems more drastic but if you compare it to the ICE highway numbers, it is not that different. For true comparison between the two I would use the same rout, load and speed. I wonder if towing the camper shown in the photo would wipes out most of Rivian aero advantage since the total cross section would be the same.

Details aside, I agree that they are good for short run towing at lower speeds. Any serious long distance towing with current infrastructure is for competent and lucky project managers.

 

[CharonPDX]

Yep. Ours was the smallest trailer I could find with both a "separate bedroom" and an exterior-accessible bathroom. We often camp with multiple teenagers who want to tent-camp, not sleep in the camper, but they do come in to use the bathroom or kitchen; so my wife and I want to be able to sleep without sharing the same space that they'd come in to.

I imagine once the teens are out of the house, we'll downgrade to something smaller and less energy-sapping.

 

[Yossarian]

. . .
Would like to see folks post about teardrops and experience with efficiency. I am reluctant to go to something like that because there is usually no toilet - the whole reason for a trailer IMO.
Gotta have a project.

I plan to tow my teardrop with my Rivian (which may get to me next year, but more likely not until 2024) and have been searching for EV efficiency info on other sites. The best analog I found was a couple from Canada who towed a T@B 400 teardrop with their Tesla X. They rarely got less than about 1.5 mi/kWh and were often closer to 2.0. I found that encouraging, maybe even encouraging enough to change from the R1T Max to an R1S LR. I will wait for a Rivian update on the Max, something I expect near the end of the year, before making the final decision on models & battery size.

In the meantime, I'm planning a trip to Safari Condo in Quebec to take a look at their the Alto A2124. They claim that it's one of the most aerodynamic trailers available. Drawbacks are cost and availability; they've taken a page out of the Rivian playbook, and an order now results in delivery in 2025!

 

[Yossarian]

The Alto looks cool. I've heard about the t@b, the cirrus. But man are they pricey.

I've had 2 tent trailers in my life. Was going to go aliner but went with the apex. Storage, etc. Kind of thinking of like the Aliner right about now.

These things have gone up so much in price. Crazyness.

If you are in Canada, I think there are a few making great fiberglass campers worth a look.

I truly think it is not the weight but the aerodynamics.

Chime in if you buy an alto. Wonder about durability and if it can fit in standard 8'? Garage door.

You are correct that aerodynamics is much more important than weight. Pop-up's like the A-Liner have a low profile that doesn't increase frontal area and so would seem to have a minimal impact on total drag. The R-series Alto is kind of a pop-up/teardrop hybrid. Its retractable roof gives it a relatively low profile like a pop-up, but at roughly 84" tall, it still protrudes somewhat above the tailgate of the R1T. I'm guessing however that the more gradual slope at its rear smooths airflow a bit, so that overall, it is more efficient than a traditional teardrop. It surely will fit in a standard garage. It's not really the model we're considering however; we need something just a bit bigger now that we have to share space with two dogs.

The A2124 is what we're considering and at 98", is not a candidate for most garages. It's biggest selling point for EV towing is its [claimed] efficiency. As the snip below shows, it has a triangular front designed to minimize frontal area, and a slanted rear to minimize turbulence. The underside is also smooth and enclosed, something that helps efficiency and that few other campers offer. The drawback to the A2124 design is that the interior is cramped. Just how limiting is difficult to determine from photos, which is why we want to se it person. We're actually in PA, so a day's drive to where Safari Condo is, near Quebec City. The plan is to tow our 320 up there, combining a walk-through of the camper with a Fall foliage tour.

As far as cost goes, at the $55k (US) level, the A2124 is expensive, but still nowhere near Airstream and some of the really pricey RV's. TheT@B 400 is close to $40k, so somewhat less. Even the A-Liner is getting up there; several of the models I saw at the RV show a week or so back were over $30k, the same territory as the T@B 320.

 

[Redmond Chad]

I ordered a Safari Condo Alto A2124 in Sept 2020. It arrived in Dec 2021. I'm hoping that someday my R1T with Max Pack will be its tow vehicle, but until that arrives we are towing it with our 2017 Tesla X.

Some of my key takeaways from extensive threads on the teslamotorsclub.com Model X forums:

• aero is generally the biggest factor by far. Weight can become a really big deal if you do a lot of elevation, though
• keep your speed down! Drag increases as the square of the speed (whether you have a trailer or not)
• things with a small frontal area - think short and narrow - are best. Folding trailers can be great
• Among full-size trailers, an aerodynamic shape is your friend. While eye-wateringly expensive, the Bowlus trailers are probably the best you can get
• Not too far behind are trailers with friendly, 3-dimensional edges like Airstream, or the Alto A2124. Though note that a more-traditional style like the Alto A1723 can be very similar (at least in total drag, partly because of a slightly smaller frontal area)
• Actual teardrops are aerodynamic because they have that shape in 3 dimensions. However, most teardrop trailers still have straight edges in two dimensions, and that causes a lot of turbulence. Most teardrop trailers are not terribly aerodynamic (though they still may do well if they have a small frontal area, like the Alto R-series)

Our X is rated for 295 miles at about 300Wh/mi. That rating is at about 55mph in good weather, so in our real driving over the past several years we have averaged about 365Wh/mi. While towing the A2124, we have gotten anywhere from 500Wh/mi at 55mph on a dry, low-wind, 65 degree day to 600Wh/mi at 60mph on a rainy, windy, 45-degree day.

So worst-case, it has cut our range in half of the rated range (though we lose less than that compared to our normal range). The absolute hit when towing with the R1T should be very similar, but given that the R1T is not nearly as efficient as the X, I'm hoping that the percentage hit will be smaller on the R1T.

Oh, by the way, we generally love the A2124. It arrived clean, as described, materials and workmanship seem high-quality, everything works, and it has some neat little touches. I like that it's about as light and aero as they come for a trailer with a bathroom and a (near) King-size bed, which were my wife's criteria. The only thing I find annoying about it is that if you have more than 2 people, that triangular front dinette is really hard to use. But it's usually just my wife and I, and it's perfect for us.

 

[Redmond Chad]

Here is a table from Safari Condo where they say they have tested various trailers behind a Model X, and here's the consumption rates they recorded.

Not everyone that has seen this table agrees that it's a fair comparison, but I don't have a better table.

 

[Redmond Chad]

I finally can tow our Safari Condo Alto A2124 with a Rivian. Too bad we don't have any camping trips planned. But I will report back with efficiency numbers when we go somewhere.

 

[Yossarian]

Very much looking forward to learning more about towing the A2124 with the R1S @Redmond Chad.

We presently have a T@B 320, but need a bit more room since we now travel with two dogs. The larger T@B, the 400, and the A2124 are really the only two on our list to replace it. Despite its small size and somewhat aero profile, the 320 imposes a pretty significant mileage penalty, on the order of 30 - 35% with our ICE vehicle. We're still waiting for our R1S, but based on what we've seen so far, the range hit from towing with an EV will likely be at the higher end of that range, perhaps even more (one report of towing a 320 with an R1T had efficiencies down in 1.0 - 1.2 mi/kWh range.) It would be great to learn that the A2124 is truly as aerodynamic as Safari Condo bills, it and that the range penalty is modest.

 

[Redmond Chad]

I reported an A2124 towing result in THIS thread.

 

[kiminbend]

I finally can tow our Safari Condo Alto A2124 with a Rivian. Too bad we don't have any camping trips planned. But I will report back with efficiency numbers when we go somewhere.

So, Remond Chad, have you taken the A2124 out on a trip yet? Ours comes in 2025, my hubby in hearing your results.

 

[Redmond Chad]

We haven't taken many trips, but here's what we have so far:

1. My wife got 1.55mi/kWh on a 56-mile route (plus a ferry ride in the middle) where speeds varied from 35-60mph. It was lower 60's with a tiny bit of rain. Very little elevation change.

2. We got 1.51 on a 136-mile round-trip over a mountain pass (up 2779', then down 807'; camp and then go back). Clear dry days in the 60's. Speeds 45-55 on backroads (almost half the trip) and 60 on the freeway. It was 1.34 on the way there (more up) and 1.73 (more down) on the way back.

3. There was a third trip, but I can't find any numbers written down anywhere. I got sick on the trip so maybe I just didn't document it, but I am pretty sure the numbers weren't far from the above.

Just for reference, when NOT towing and going 75mph (or trying to; there were some slowdowns so my average was 71mph) I got 2.27. This is an R1S with 20" wheels; I changed the tires to Michelin Defenders and added the EVSportline aero inserts.

Over the last ~6 months, the car reports an average of 2.17. That is mostly not towing (though it does include a couple of the trips). That is also mostly fairly-short around-town driving.

 

[Redmond Chad]

And we just took a fourth trip towing the Safari Condo Alto A2124. The car seems to show fewer details about energy use; maybe I need to dig more...but we did a 152.7 mile round-trip that used 74% of the battery. The R1S claims 1.5 mi/kWh.

Sanity checks: Usable battery (large pack) is about 132kWh (thanks Dave!). Times 1.5 indicates a max towing range of 198 miles. We used 74% of the battery, so could supposedly have gone 206 miles on 100% of the battery. 74% of 132kWh is 97.68kWh; times 1.5 is 146.5 miles but we actually went 152.7. Both of these metrics indicate that we did better than 1.5 mi/kWh; but perhaps not enough to get 1.6. That's in line with previous trips.

Conditions: dry, with temperatures in the 50s. Some light winds. Fairly flat for the PNW. We went just over 60mph on the highway which was most of the trip; but even though traffic was good it says our average speed was 45mph...I'm not sure if it's counting stoplights.

Sponsored