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Trandall

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My problem with AL is that is has a high expansion/contraction range due to heat cycling. This can loosen connections. Also, unless it is properly treated, it can oxidize which reduces conductivity and increases heating issues. The only time I'll use AL wiring is the service drop if it's an overhead service and between the meter and the main breaker.
I second this. If it was my house or a family member I would use copper for exactly the reasons above.
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PhatDaddy

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I think it's good that a purpose built 14-50 outlet will be available for EV charging use. Over the years I have seen many reports of melting. Some of those were related to a poorly made plug though.

Hard wiring an EV charger eliminates two potential failure points. It also allows for faster charging at greater than 40 amps.

The plugs also require a GFCI breaker which can be problematic and it much more expensive than a standard breaker.

I always recommend hard wired for permanent home charging installation for these reasons.

If the owner insists on a 14-50 though it's good to know these exist. The Hubbell has been a recommendation in the various EV communities for years and rightfully so.
Starting a major remodel on a house I own that will be exclusively a rental. Given that, I've specified a new breaker and dedicated 14-50 plug (vs hardwired) be installed in the garage to allow tenants with EVs to install their own charger (or not) via the plug in. I will ask for copper vs aluminum, but should any licensed electrician also know that a GFCI breaker is required for an EV charger? I was under the impression (from where? don't know) that (all?) plug-in wall mount EV chargers had a built in GFCI. Is that not accurate?
 
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....but should any licensed electrician also know that a GFCI breaker is required for an EV charger?
If the electrician doesn't know that code requires GFCI protection on power outlets in a garage, then you need a new electrician. Whether the electrician agrees with the need for GFCI protection on all outlets, that's completely different. My welder outlet isn't GFCI protected, neither is my plasma cutter, or the freezer outlet. They weren't required to be when I built the house.

I was under the impression (from where? don't know) that (all?) plug-in wall mount EV chargers had a built in GFCI. Is that not accurate?
Nope. I'd be surprised if any had them.
 

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If the electrician doesn't know that code requires GFCI protection on power outlets in a garage, then you need a new electrician. Whether the electrician agrees with the need for GFCI protection on all outlets, that's completely different. My welder outlet isn't GFCI protected, neither is my plasma cutter, or the freezer outlet. They weren't required to be when I built the house.

Nope. I'd be surprised if any had them.
OK... well I'm not an electrician... and I don't have a dog in this hunt... but I'm just trying to figure out the best course of action in a remodel currently underway of a rental house where I would like to make a circuit capable of charging an EV available to future tenants. Providing a high amperage plug-in circuit in the garage would seem (to me) to provide the best approach so that tenants can bring their own EVSE (plug-in only type), and also take it when they end their tenancy. I do NOT want to be the provider of the EVSE itself. And I would stipulate that no hard-wired equipment could be added by the tenant, and that any plug-in equipment be approved before installation (to try to ensure no use of cheap, poorly made, or non-code compliant equipment)

Further research (granted, it IS the Internet) indicates to ME that virtually ALL EVSE has GFCI circuitry built in. In fact, it sounds like a hard-wired EVSE is often recommended specifically because it does NOT require a separate GFCI breaker (because it is not 'plugged in'). Apparently a plug-in EVSE (depending upon brand) will not infrequently experience nuisance tripping of the (required GFCI) breaker when the built-in GFCI circuitry of the EVSE doesn't play well with a GFCI breaker.

So I feel kinda stuck. Any experience or recommendations would be appreciated.
 

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OK... well I'm not an electrician... and I don't have a dog in this hunt... but I'm just trying to figure out the best course of action in a remodel currently underway of a rental house where I would like to make a circuit capable of charging an EV available to future tenants. Providing a high amperage plug-in circuit in the garage would seem (to me) to provide the best approach so that tenants can bring their own EVSE (plug-in only type), and also take it when they end their tenancy. I do NOT want to be the provider of the EVSE itself. And I would stipulate that no hard-wired equipment could be added by the tenant, and that any plug-in equipment be approved before installation (to try to ensure no use of cheap, poorly made, or non-code compliant equipment)

Further research (granted, it IS the Internet) indicates to ME that virtually ALL EVSE has GFCI circuitry built in. In fact, it sounds like a hard-wired EVSE is often recommended specifically because it does NOT require a separate GFCI breaker (because it is not 'plugged in'). Apparently a plug-in EVSE (depending upon brand) will not infrequently experience nuisance tripping of the (required GFCI) breaker when the built-in GFCI circuitry of the EVSE doesn't play well with a GFCI breaker.

So I feel kinda stuck. Any experience or recommendations would be appreciated.
Good observations.

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd just pay for an evse and hard wire it. Only costs a couple hundred bucks for the unit and then you don't need to pay for an expensive GFCI breaker. Also you can be sure it was wired correctly and poses little fire risk vs an unknown tenants 9,600 watt device. This then gives you a selling point when putting the unit up for rent. Could even add 10-20 bucks a month for use of it if you wanted.

GFCI breakers are also prone to nuisance trips which could cause you as the landowner to be responsible for those service calls and potential headaches.

I'd think even gas driving tenants would think it's cool as their EV friends could charge when coming over or they could consider an EV in the future where they wouldn't buy an evse themselves.
 

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Good observations.

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd just pay for an evse and hard wire it. Only costs a couple hundred bucks for the unit and then you don't need to pay for an expensive GFCI breaker. Also you can be sure it was wired correctly and poses little fire risk vs an unknown tenants 9,600 watt device. This then gives you a selling point when putting the unit up for rent. Could even add 10-20 bucks a month for use of it if you wanted.

I'd think even gas driving tenants would think it's cool as their EV friends could charge when coming over or they could consider an EV in the future where they wouldn't buy an evse themselves.
I get that approach, appreciate the advice, and I am willing to consider that option. But it is yet another piece of equipment on which I have to absorb risk (i.e. hope that any deposit can cover any damage - which it never does); maintain/replace; troubleshoot if they can't make it work, etc.. Also (in my area) EV adoption is still not the norm (and probably more so for renters) so the value add from a tenant standpoint may be more limited. Lastly, if I buy the EVSE what do I install? Telsa or non-Tesla device? Tesla is by far the most common here.
 

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I get that approach, appreciate the advice, and I am willing to consider that option. But it is yet another piece of equipment on which I have to absorb risk (i.e. hope that any deposit can cover any damage - which it never does); maintain/replace; troubleshoot if they can't make it work, etc.. Also (in my area) EV adoption is still not the norm (and probably more so for renters) so the value add from a tenant standpoint may be more limited. Lastly, if I buy the EVSE what do I install? Telsa or non-Tesla device? Tesla is by far the most common here.
Unless huge price difference I'd buy Tesla as yes way more now and with NACS switch will be even more so in the future. I'm installing Tesla charger where my Rivian is parked as it'll likely be my only CCS vehicle ever, and I'm on my third Tesla.

Other options is just don't install it at all.

Or run wiring now but cap it with blank plate and call the garage EV ready. Would be minimum fee electrician call to add tenant paid evse in the future.

Personally I'm just not a fan of 14-50 for a daily evse use, especially somewhere code requires GFCI. My Tesla charges fine from GFCI but my Rivian trips it nearly every time.
 

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Starting a major remodel on a house I own that will be exclusively a rental. Given that, I've specified a new breaker and dedicated 14-50 plug (vs hardwired) be installed in the garage to allow tenants with EVs to install their own charger (or not) via the plug in. I will ask for copper vs aluminum, but should any licensed electrician also know that a GFCI breaker is required for an EV charger? I was under the impression (from where? don't know) that (all?) plug-in wall mount EV chargers had a built in GFCI. Is that not accurate?
GFCI is required "at the outlet". Since the charge head is an outlet, they are required to have built-in GFCI. Since a 14-50 is also an outlet that's required to be protected by GFCI.

Both are opportunities for some to accidentally be shocked. When you hard wire you eliminate one outlet. Because there are two GFCI nusciance tripping can be an issue. Some have a problem and some don't.
 

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Unless huge price difference I'd buy Tesla as yes way more now and with NACS switch will be even more so in the future. I'm installing Tesla charger where my Rivian is parked as it'll likely be my only CCS vehicle ever, and I'm on my third Tesla.

Other options is just don't install it at all.

Or run wiring now but cap it with blank plate and call the garage EV ready. Would be minimum fee electrician call to add tenant paid evse in the future.

Personally I'm just not a fan of 14-50 for a daily evse use, especially somewhere code requires GFCI. My Tesla charges fine from GFCI but my Rivian trips it nearly every time.
Thanks to the community for all the feedback. As suggested, for my rental remodel (long-term leases only) I’m going to go with installing a 60 amp (less expensive non-GFCI) continuous duty breaker terminated at a capped junction box in the garage, and calling it ‘EV Ready’. I will require tenants to coordinate any install of EVSE equipment with me, and I will allow only hard-wired EVSE equipment that I approve. If it was a short-term rental I would have a more complicated decision to make. Thanks all.

oh, one more question… for a planned hard-wired EVSE junction box… what size? 4” square?
 
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Thanks to the community for all the feedback. As suggested, for my rental remodel (long-term leases only) I’m going to go with installing a 60 amp (less expensive non-GFCI) continuous duty breaker terminated at a capped junction box in the garage, and calling it ‘EV Ready’. I will require tenants to coordinate any install of EVSE equipment with me, and I will allow only hard-wired EVSE equipment that I approve. If it was a short-term rental I would have a more complicated decision to make. Thanks all.

oh, one more question… for a planned hard-wired EVSE junction box… what size? 4” square?
Good question, I'm not sure. With hardwired units I've only installed conduit the whole way so you will want to ask an electrician. 6 gauge thhn wire is likely best for 60amp. If think conduit into a recessed mounted big square box would be good. Id probably try and size box so you could add a neutral later and have box fill room to put in 14-50. But I'd only run wires for hard wire install.

Definitely get licensed electrician input.... Technically I have an apprentice license but I really only look into this as a hobby.

I'd also quote just getting an evse installed too ... Maybe the box addition doesn't save much over just buying an evse with conduit install the whole way.
 
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oh, one more question… for a planned hard-wired EVSE junction box… what size? 4” square?
4" square deep, although for the Rivian hardwired unit, it can't mount directly on the box. It would have to mount above the box and be connected to the box with conduit or more likely flexible metallic conduit.
 

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Good question, I'm not sure. With hardwired units I've only installed conduit the whole way so you will want to ask an electrician. 6 gauge thhn wire is likely best for 60amp. If think conduit into a recessed mounted big square box would be good. Id probably try and size box so you could add a neutral later and have box fill room to put in 14-50. But I'd only run wires for hard wire install.

Definitely get licensed electrician input.... Technically I have an apprentice license but I really only look into this as a hobby.

I'd also quote just getting an evse installed too ... Maybe the box addition doesn't save much over just buying an evse with conduit install the whole way.
Since it is a rental, decided I'm not willing to pay for the EVSE and install (and guess at the type equipment a tenant might want)... just going to provide the circuit.
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