Lack of Android Auto / Waze is a reason to cancel

[r1t_kev]

I find it fascinating that a vehicle having or not having AA/CP is a buying decision for some people - as if it's what makes the thing go zoom. I'm not trying to be inflammatory; I mean, people like what they like. I'm just surprised how much of a catalyst having the "right" infotainment ecosystem is.

Sponsored

 

[Engi_Nerd]

It's their own infotainment system. Those things aren't available in a Tesla either. Personally I'd rather not have to have an additional device to depend on working. Phones get damaged beyond repair all the time.

Normally don't bother arguing with people but, come on. Is this a real comment from a real person?

On another note, our Tesla's bluetooth integration started great but has been "updated" to garbage. It has been notifying us of text messages that are a year old. Stopped allowing us to dictate outgoing messages, and has around 50% hit rate with making calls. This is with S21 Ultra and Pixel 6 Pro, so two of the most up to date Android phones. These features have always and still continue to work flawlessly in our 2018 vehicle with Android Auto. Relying on these companies to replicate what Apple and Google do will never benefit the consumer.

 

[nc10]

I find it fascinating that a vehicle having or not having AA/CP is a buying decision for some people - as if it's what makes the thing go zoom.

CP was a "must have" for my last two ICE vehicle purchases, fortunately most ICE vehicles have it now. If there was something similar to the R1T with CP, I'd choose it for sure. But there's nothing I can get in a similar time frame/price, and "EV" and "zoom" are a higher priority than CP. It is not the CP experience per se. Its the consistent experience from vehicle to vehicle, and from my phone/ipad, and knowing I will be able to get future apps and updates, and without costing more. CP is far from perfect, but the advantages are a big deal to me, and Apple's commitment to CP seems reliable. I don't see how Rivian can provide the same level of consistency and the ability and willingness to take advantage of future apps and updates.

 

[mkg3]

CP was a must have for my last two ICE vehicle purchases, fortunately most have it now. If there was something similar to the R1T with CP, I'd choose it for sure. But there's nothing I can get in a similar time frame/price, and "EV" and "zoom" are a higher priority than CP. It is not the CP experience per se. Its the consistent experience from vehicle to vehicle, and from my phone/ipad, and knowing I will be able to get future apps and updates, and without costing more. CP is far from perfect, but the advantages are a big deal to me, and Apple's commitment to CP seems reliable. I don't see how Rivian can provide the same level of consistency and the ability and willingness to take advantage of future apps and updates.

My perspective is completely opposite from one like yours.

I don't want to be captive to any one OS (CP/AA). All the connectivity I care about between my phone and the car is calls, text/messages and stream music. Simple BT 5.0 is more than sufficient.

I actually like driving. Not a big fan of any self driving features; though, I see the value and the benefits.

As long as the vehicle has some sort of Nav system and allows me to see where I am, that's good enough for me. I can route myself as well as compare what the Nav system does versus what I can do and compare the route.

That said, I'm sure that my perspective is in the minority herein. so there you go....

 

[Attesan997]

I find it fascinating that a vehicle having or not having AA/CP is a buying decision for some people - as if it's what makes the thing go zoom. I'm not trying to be inflammatory; I mean, people like what they like. I'm just surprised how much of a catalyst having the "right" infotainment ecosystem is.

I support the question in the title of the thread. Is it enough to cancel your reservation, yes. But only if your delivery window is earlier than Q3 of this year. Anything later wouldn't have an impact on getting my vehicle sooner.

 

[Ginny]

My perspective is completely opposite from one like yours.

I don't want to be captive to any one OS (CP/AA). All the connectivity I care about between my phone and the car is calls, text/messages and stream music. Simple BT 5.0 is more than sufficient.

I actually like driving. Not a big fan of any self driving features; though, I see the value and the benefits.

As long as the vehicle has some sort of Nav system and allows me to see where I am, that's good enough for me. I can route myself as well as compare what the Nav system does versus what I can do and compare the route.

That said, I'm sure that my perspective is in the minority herein. so there you go....

Well, my car doesn't have those things anyway. I have bluetooth for phone and sirus xm for music, so hopefully you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! ?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Normally don't bother arguing with people but, come on. Is this a real comment from a real person?

On another note, our Tesla's bluetooth integration started great but has been "updated" to garbage. It has been notifying us of text messages that are a year old. Stopped allowing us to dictate outgoing messages, and has around 50% hit rate with making calls. This is with S21 Ultra and Pixel 6 Pro, so two of the most up to date Android phones. These features have always and still continue to work flawlessly in our 2018 vehicle with Android Auto. Relying on these companies to replicate what Apple and Google do will never benefit the consumer.

So if you happened to break or lose your phone while you were out adventuring, what's the problem here exactly? Because Tesla got something wrong you expect everyone else to? (By the way, what you're describing is an Android permissions issue) Android Auto was far from flawless in *my* 2018 vehicle.

 

[Obioban]

My perspective is completely opposite from one like yours.

I don't want to be captive to any one OS (CP/AA). All the connectivity I care about between my phone and the car is calls, text/messages and stream music. Simple BT 5.0 is more than sufficient.

I actually like driving. Not a big fan of any self driving features; though, I see the value and the benefits.

As long as the vehicle has some sort of Nav system and allows me to see where I am, that's good enough for me. I can route myself as well as compare what the Nav system does versus what I can do and compare the route.

That said, I'm sure that my perspective is in the minority herein. so there you go....

You are captive to one option when CP/AA does not exist. If it does exist, you get to choose between Rivian native, Carplay, or Android Auto... and ALL of the apps within CarPlay and Android auto.

If it doesn't exist, all you get is Rivian native and any apps they choose to grace you with, for a monthly fee.

The Rivian native system doesn't even store maps locally, so if you go somewhere cellular service isn't... bye bye native nav. CP/AA would give you the option of downloading a nav app with offline maps.

 

[mkg3]

You are captive to one option when CP/AA does not exist. If it does exist, you get to choose between Rivian native, Carplay, or Android Auto... and ALL of the apps within CarPlay and Android auto.

If it doesn't exist, all you get is Rivian native and any apps they choose to grace you with, for a monthly fee.

The Rivian native system doesn't even store maps locally, so if you go somewhere cellular service isn't... bye bye native nav. CP/AA would give you the option of downloading a nav app with offline maps.

My thoughts were that if one has a device with an OS (iOS, Android), then Rivian provides another.

I really don't need apps while I'm driving and if I need a map and have cell coverage, then I have both smart phone and Rivian option. If I am going somewhere there are no cell coverage, there is a PAPER ROAD MAP/ATLAS.

Don't need to be connected to all things all the time. As for subscription for Rivian AN, its not mandatory. Its an option. Just like everything else...

 

[Bigeasy70075]

I do think it's good to have the option for AA/Carplay but definitely not a deal breaker. Most of the functionality will be baked into this UI. for the few things that aren't there are easy workarounds. For Waze just lay your phone on the charging pad in front of the arm rest and put Waze on your phone. Will alert you to road hazards/police/traffic etc. just them same and is right in plain view with very easy access..

 

[Obioban]

My thoughts were that if one has a device with an OS (iOS, Android), then Rivian provides another.

I really don't need apps while I'm driving and if I need a map and have cell coverage, then I have both smart phone and Rivian option. If I am going somewhere there are no cell coverage, there is a PAPER ROAD MAP/ATLAS.

Don't need to be connected to all things all the time. As for subscription for Rivian AN, its not mandatory. Its an option. Just like everything else...

Can really kick it old school with the Rivian. Paper maps, garage door opener clipped onto the mirror, phone suction cupped to the windshield. All the best things.

 

[stynes]

I've followed this thread for a while but haven't jumped in much (if at all). It's curious to me to see how anchored the opinions seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Today I have 3 vehicles, 2 that support AA and another that doesn't. The one I drive most frequently doesn't have AA but because my other 2 do, I've used it quite a bit and typically use it in rental cars as well.

In my daily driver I have a cell phone holder and use Waze and Pandora / Castbox integrated via BT. I'm not suggesting their aren't better audio solutions out there but that seems to be sufficient for my needs. I don't travel with songs on a stick, much of my music is downloaded to my phone so I'm not having to stream. In my experience, the streaming experience is uneven. There are dead spots and skips at times, even in the Atlanta metro. When I head up in the N GA mountains and toward the Smokies, coverage can be non-existent.

The biggest cons I see from Rivian owning the entire experience - no support for Pandora and I'm forced into Spotify. I don't have anything against Spotify but Pandora offered a family plan long before Spotify did and now I've got many years and playlists and thumbs up that I don't want to have to transition. The Waze experience with what I've found to be a better, more accurate experience on speed limits, hazards, police presence, construction and closures, etc. than other platforms is gone. Other things I really like about Waze that I don't often hear talked about - it integrates with my address book and calendar so if I have a meeting, with a location filled in or if I'm going to a place I have in my phone's address book - I just click and go. I also really like Waze's predictive suggestions helpful. I don't have my gym as a location or meeting but it knows based on day and time that I'm likely going to the gym and just routes me there. And perhaps the biggest thing for me is the fully integrated, transferrable experience. I love being able to move my phone from my daily driver to one of my other vehicles and because I'm using my phone or AA, everything just transfers.

Pros I see from Rivian owning the entire experience - it's seamless on the one vehicle, more / better information about Rivian owned chargers. Better audio with that integrated experience. Are there other things I'm missing that are advantages in that model? Much of the trumpeting of this approach I've heard seems to depend on assumptions about the experience that Rivian is going to deliver. But is it reasonable to expect them to deliver a better mapping experience than Waze given all of the above or a better music experience than I can get with Pandora or Spotify (or other AA music providers)? That seems like quite a stretch to me.

If you're having trouble reading between the lines, I'm a big fan of Rivian offering AA (and CP but I'm an AA user). That said, I can't imagine not getting the Rivian at this point and giving their experience a shot. I hope as they realize how difficult it's going to be to deliver an experience on par with Waze, for example, that they'll reconsider AA support. But time will tell and if I have to get a phone holder for my Rivian, well, not an ideal experience but that's what I'll do and we'll see how things play out.

 

[mkg3]

Can really kick it old school with the Rivian. Paper maps, garage door opener clipped onto the mirror, phone suction cupped to the windshield. All the best things.

Yeah maybe bit too old school.

My whole house is connected. Everything from alarm, garage doors, landscape lighting, sprinkler to all the inside stuff (smart thermostat, lights, fridge and so on) all controllable from my phone.

All that and I refuse to use Alexa or Siri to do the tasks. So I’m really messed up I suppose. I don’t care about CP/AA because I never use Waze and usually route my path in my head. I’m sure that all the speed trap warnings alone should force me to use it but I digress…

Btw, garage remote gets clipped onto the visor, not the mirror ?

 

[SeaGeo]

These features have always and still continue to work flawlessly in our 2018 vehicle with Android Auto. Relying on these companies to replicate what Apple and Google do will never benefit the consumer.

To push back a bit here, I've used AA for several years, as I'm sure you have. AA has had more random bugs and shit crop up that Google has let languish for a significant period of time than I can remember. The wake word is inconsistent in all three of the cars I have had it on, music and apps will randomly stop working for no obvious reason, and there are currently at least a couple of apps that refused to work over the car audio (I'm looking at you Teams). At one point AA was so inconsistent in one of my cars that Audible books just weren't working reliably and I had to default back to bluetooth.

Which isn't saying I don't want AA on the truck, I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do with some of the audio apps I use, but it's definitely not bug proof.

 

[SeaGeo]

Pros I see from Rivian owning the entire experience - it's seamless on the one vehicle, more / better information about Rivian owned chargers. Better audio with that integrated experience. Are there other things I'm missing that are advantages in that model?

I think one of the hurdles that I'd be worried about if I was a car manufacturer is being able to actively manage the vehicle based on the route. If the car *knows* where you're going and where you plan on going, it can do things like precondition the battery to facilitate a better charging session. Or, it can predictively adjust range in the GOM based on the route (will you be going back downhill in 20 miles? Uphill? Is it windy on the other side of the mountain pass?). It can also adjust the nav routing on the fly based on the SOC and charger availability.

Some of those things can be done with ABRP. I'm not aware of being able to have AA or CP read a vehicle SOC and consumption live to predict charging needs and times, as well as add them to the route.

If I'm creating an EV, I probably wouldn't want to grant easy access to a navigation system in the car that doesn't facilitate helping manage the charging experience. They could do that with a wholesale change to android automotive like Volvo/Polestar, but that's a different topic.

Put it another way:
If you get in a tesla, people usually use Tesla's navigation. Which results in an great interaction with the supercharger network. If Tesla adds AA and people new to a Tesla hop in and start using AA - how many more people are going to have a less than ideal experience with charging and range? And what's the impact of that on brand adoption and experience.

Sponsored