KBB Comparisons: R1T vs Cybertruck, Hummer, F-150 Lightning

[ubani]

Matt DeLorenzo is out here writing official KBB comparisons. On July 14, I see three comparisons with the R1T: Hummer, Ford Lightning, and Cybertruck

Tesla Cybertruck vs. Rivian R1T Comparison

2022 GMC Hummer EV vs. 2021 Rivian R1T Comparison

2022 Ford F-150 Lightning vs. 2021 Rivian R1T Comparison

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[lambo]

So glad to see comparisons like this starting. Still blanks to fill in but that will come soon.

My favorite quote from the F150 comparison

The front trunk, or drunk, can hold 14.1 cubic feet of cargo.​

Auto correct I assume.

 

[skyote]

The front trunk, or drunk, can hold 14.1 cubic feet of cargo.

Or a very appropriate name if you fill it with alcoholic beverages.

 

[BigE]

R1T vs CyberTruck on weight...so the Rivian CS has told me in the past the Large (really mid-pack) will weigh ~5,900 and the Max ~6,300 lbs. Warren Redlich has done some analysis showing CyberTruck Tri-Motor should weigh ~4600-4700 lbs. This is where I'm ok with yet another delay from Rivian as I really want to see the R1T broken down. My fear is Rivian designed most of the R1T back in 2015-2016 and did a lot of traditional build, heavy body on frame, tons of heavy wiring, resistant heating, etc. So with say 6,300 lbs, you're going to need a huge heavy battery and not get a lot of range. Also, Rivian's battery chemistry will be behind Tesla's new cell that will go into CyberTruck. As to F-150 Lightning, the Large pack is ~6,500 lbs.

 

[skyote]

@BigE that guy is high on something. There's zero chance the CT comes in under 5K lbs.

The skin is 3mm thick steel, vs aluminum body for F150 & Rivian; this should be close to offsetting lack of steel frame.

The battery chemisty isn't revolutionary, the 4680 is just a new form factor. It will bring volumetric energy density improvements, but not significant weight savings for like capacities.

 

[BigE]

@BigE that guy is high on something. There's zero chance the CT comes in under 5K lbs.

The skin is 3mm thick steel, vs aluminum body for F150 & Rivian; this should be close to offsetting lack of steel frame.

The battery chemisty isn't revolutionary, the 4680 is just a new form factor. It will bring volumetric energy density improvements, but not significant weight savings for like capacities.

4680 will come in 3 different battery chemistries per what Tesla presented last battery day, so yes, the High Nickel will be very different than what Rivian will get in the current Samsung cells. Cybertruck will be a unibody with maga casting so should be very strong & light weight. Tell will tell.

 

[TessP100D]

@BigE that guy is high on something. There's zero chance the CT comes in under 5K lbs.

The skin is 3mm thick steel, vs aluminum body for F150 & Rivian; this should be close to offsetting lack of steel frame.

The battery chemisty isn't revolutionary, the 4680 is just a new form factor. It will bring volumetric energy density improvements, but not significant weight savings for like capacities.

Sorry. I dont think your up to speed on the new announced Tesla 4680 Battery chemistry.

 

[Autolycus]

Sorry. I dont think your up to speed on the new announced Tesla 4680 Battery chemistry.

Tesla is a little ahead of the competition, but by well under 10% in energy density. They’re not cutting 1000 lbs off their battery pack weight compared to other brands.

We also know it’s going to be >5k lbs because they filed paperwork with CARB classifying it as a 2b medium duty truck, which means >8,500lbs GVWR. They’ve listed the payload capacity as >3,500lbs, so… the truck itself must weigh more than 5k.

 

[skyote]

Sorry. I dont think your up to speed on the new announced Tesla 4680 Battery chemistry.

It's not a revoltionary chemistry. Still want to argue?

 

[EVSport7]

Has Tesla confirmed what the actual makeup of the cells will be or just "higher nickel content"?
Most of the battery companies are moving to higher nickel content (I'm assuming this will allow them to stop using cobalt), but I'm no expert, just a guess.

The weight of the CT that low is laughable

 

[TessP100D]

It's not a revoltionary chemistry. Still want to argue?

Oh my goodness… argue. No. I don’t want to do that.

I’m. not sure you understand that (Even if you don’t like them) Tesla is years and years ahead of everybody including Rivian when it comes to the User Interface on the electronics and miles ahead on battery chemistry and battery management.

The Beer Can 4680 cells are just a different size or shape, but what Tesla is trying to do (and they are not there yet) is change the way batteries are made and work through design and chemistry. If they accomplish this goal they will be light years ahead 0f everybody else. So can you image paying 80,000 plus for a Rivian or 100,000 -plus for a Ford top,of the line Lighting only to find out your brand new expensive EV is so far behind Tesla that the CT driver can’t even see you in his rear view mirror?

Range is King because of the batteries and battery management systems. Tesla is way ahead now because they have been doing it longer.

I don’t care at all how heavy the CT is. The CT is a much bigger truck than the RivIan. The weight doesn’t matter. The Ct is a much more capable vehicle than them all. It’s does a lot. Even if you don’t like the design or the company or Elon, or what ever. For me … it’s the Range. 500+ miles is all that matters. 10-20 years from now If the Rivian gets 500 miles, I will be saying that’s awesome.

Do I want to argue, no. Will I change your mind? Does it really matter?


when Rivian finally Releases the max pack model, if ever, and when Tesla finally releases the tri motor CT, if ever, we will see. Won’t we?



cheers

 

[skyote]

@TessP100D , just so you know, I follow battery tech in general very closely. 4680 is a great idea for EVs, as both the form factor and especially tabless architecture bring significant advantages.

However, lower cobalt & higher silicon is anything but novel as it relates to chemistry.

And where did I say anything at all about Tesla, much less anything negative?

 

[TessP100D]

@TessP100D , just so you know, I follow battery tech in general very closely. 4680 is a great idea for EVs, as both the form factor and especially tabless architecture bring significant advantages.

However, lower cobalt & higher silicon is anything but novel as it relates to chemistry.

And where did I say anything at all about Tesla, much less anything negative?

Ok Pilgram.

I am glad your involved. As much as I love Tesla and Elon, and also the electric revolution I am the first to call out all the BS that Musk tweets out. And I do Not like the road that Tesla is now taking with their Plaid S, and proposed ideas for the Cyber Truck. If they continue down that road—-I’m out. All the way with Tesla.

thanks for the back and forth. I wish you well.

 

[LeoH]

Range is always a good argument if you actually do travel over 400 miles a day. I care more about quality. Extra range does me no good if I can't use the vehicle as I intended when I bought it. This might be my own personal opinion due to nightmare experiences with 2 teslas. But I also do not believe the average or mainstream user will need 500 miles. Since 2014 I used the supercharger under 10 times.

I also do not think CT and R1T are competing in the same exact segment of pickups. CT seems to be a working truck while the R1T is an off roading truck, I could be wrong though.

 

[Gshenderson]

Range is King because of the batteries and battery management systems.

The delusion continues…

don’t care at all how heavy the CT is. The CT is a much bigger truck than the RivIan. The weight doesn’t matter. The Ct is a much more capable vehicle than them all. It’s does a lot. Even if you don’t like the design or the company or Elon, or what ever. For me … it’s the Range. 500+ miles is all that matters. 10-20 years from now If the Rivian gets 500 miles, I will be saying that’s awesome.

Which production vehicle or test mule are you referring to here? Present tense? Really?

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