[Jerry Rig Everything] -- "How Dirty Are EV's"? (and cracked R1T windshield)

[RexRemus]

Yet another video on EV vs Gas total emission comparison, but of note - yet another "Rivian has bad glass?" victim

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[SANZC02]

Yet another video on EV vs Gas total emission comparison, but of note - yet another "Rivian has bad glass?" victim

And yet another vehicle that does not factor in the CO2 emissions per gallon of gas to be extracted/processed/and delivered to the fuel stations.

It is not an insignificant amount and should be included since it is no different than counting the emissions for generating the electricity.

 

[Dark-Fx]

And yet another vehicle that does not factor in the CO2 emissions per gallon of gas to be extracted/processed/and delivered to the fuel stations.

It is not an insignificant amount and should be included since it is no different than counting the emissions for generating the electricity.

Also doesn't factor in the amount of emissions my bloodline is responsible for after reproduction

 

[yizzung]

Pretty good video.

This podcast also does a really good job of explaining the case for EVs as part of the broader climate solution. You can listen or read the transcript:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jesse-jenkins.html

TLDR, sure, some of the electricity today comes from dirty sources but that's changed dramatically over the last 10-20 years. Solar and wind have gotten 10X cheaper in a decade. (We're also not sending combat troops to die in the name of solar/wind.) The arc over time is important -- his graph assumes things are static over the next 200,000 miles and doesn't account for a higher ratio of clean production coming on line in the future.

There's the potential of CO2 capture to consider. The tech is really unproven today but if carbon capture will ever work, it is more likely that it'll happen at scale near industrial sites of production (ie. at the coal furnace) rather than at the tailpipe of millions of vehicles spread all over the world.

 

[Florida Panhandler]

Everybody knows gasoline magically appears at gas stations and pulls itself out of the underground tanks.

snark.

 

[EVTrucking]

An important point missed is that ICE exhaust is local, we are immersed in it. Just start your ICE in your garage and you will quickly make sure the garage door is open. Walk past the backend of a running ICE or look around you as you are driving down the highway surrounded by ICEs or sit in your car behind a running ICE or take a walk along a busy road. Local direct breathing in of noxious carcinogenic particle laden ICE exhaust on a daily basis is the real issue. Global warming is secondary and is too confounded for concrete conclusions.

Analogy: Stand on the shore and piss into the ocean. You look out and think the ocean is huge and your piss is meaningless but wait what about the fish and organisms located right where just pissed!! ICE exhaust is no different.

The carbon footprint for the oil pumping, refineries, fuel delivery is huge and mostly ignored by the pro oil folks. Lastly there are thousands of mini super fund sites from leaking gas storage tanks at gas stations that have poisoned ground water all over the world.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ You don't have to convince us, we're already sold on EV's... you got to sell Billy-Bob, Joe-Bob and Cooter who love their noisy, stinking, smokin, coal rolling Diesels more than they love their girlfriends.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

And yet another vehicle that does not factor in the CO2 emissions per gallon of gas to be extracted/processed/and delivered to the fuel stations.

It is not an insignificant amount and should be included since it is no different than counting the emissions for generating the electricity.

ANSWER: The best estimates are that EV's are approximately twice as environment-friendly as ICE's. That is, they get approximately twice the mileage for the same amount of pollution.

In fact, depending on where you live these numbers will vary. Some areas produce more energy by renewable means. In those places you'll get better than twice the mileage for the same pollution. In other areas you'll get less. But in general, the number is double the miles for the same pollution.

That's for propulsion.

As for mining the lithium, etc., that's a different story worthy to be told. Keep in mind, however that mining oil is no picnic for the environment either. Also, Lithium-ion batteries will work for a LONG TIME. A *long time*. Even after they cannot blast your Rivian 0-60 in 3 seconds they will still be quite useful in a home battery pack or to otherwise support the grid.

Plus, the use of EVs helps to advance the technology for all the parts, including better and more efficient batteries, better mining techniques, more electricity generated by more renewables, etc. So you're helping the environment, helping the environment, and helping the environment by using an EV.

It's the long game we're playing. And the short game too I suppose. EVs will win both.

 

[SASSquatch]

I love Zack and his channel but I'm scratching my head at how he did not even mention the oil changes that have to occur with ICE vehicles.

Mineral based engine oils (the majority) are made from crude petroleum that has to undergo significant refining. All of that is contributing a heavy emissions tax along with recycling of oil when you have your oil changed.

Since you aren't burning oil, the EPA does not factor that in to emissions of the vehicle in their scoring.

Big miss from Zack here but we need more efforts like his to keep the conversation going and cut down on the misinformation.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

^ You don't have to convince us, we're already sold on EV's... you got to sell Billy-Bob, Joe-Bob and Cooter who love their noisy, stinking, smokin, coal rolling Diesels more than they love their girlfriends.

These guys won't be convinced by an environmental argument, or even an efficiency argument. They are convinced every time they try to race my Rivian and wind up looking silly. When my truck shits on theirs they cannot deny Ev's are better, even if they want to.

 

[Tomgriff]

^ You don't have to convince us, we're already sold on EV's... you got to sell Billy-Bob, Joe-Bob and Cooter who love their noisy, stinking, smokin, coal rolling Diesels more than they love their girlfriends.

It is comments like this that turn off a lot of people I know. Not a great strategy to insult the people whose opinion you are trying to influence.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Pretty good video.

This podcast also does a really good job of explaining the case for EVs as part of the broader climate solution. You can listen or read the transcript:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jesse-jenkins.html

TLDR, sure, some of the electricity today comes from dirty sources but that's changed dramatically over the last 10-20 years. Solar and wind have gotten 10X cheaper in a decade. (We're also not sending combat troops to die in the name of solar/wind.) The arc over time is important -- his graph assumes things are static over the next 200,000 miles and doesn't account for a higher ratio of clean production coming on line in the future.

There's the potential of CO2 capture to consider. The tech is really unproven today but if carbon capture will ever work, it is more likely that it'll happen at scale near industrial sites of production (ie. at the coal furnace) rather than at the tailpipe of millions of vehicles spread all over the world.

Sigh..that’s the right answer.

My wife went to some climate conference..where she got BLASTED for owning an EV because it was dirty…until she told them we power 100% from our home solar. They then moved on to my heat and hot water and how we could make such bigger impacts instead of wasting on an EV…until she told them we had heat pumps for both and 100% covered by my solar.

Electricity may be generated off dirty fuels, but at least there’s an option and a path forward where it doesn’t have to be.

 

[atebit]

The ~$1766 question: will this “influencer” get a free windshield out of Rivian a la Kim-Oops-I-Sat-On-The-Roof-And-The-Glass-Broke?

 

[shandel]

It makes absolutely no sense to include the production cost of the electricity to power the electric vehicle and not include the production cost of the gasoline to power the ICE vehicle. This is a really deficient analysis of the total cost environmentally.

And to add to that, a large majority of our electricity will be cleanly generated over the next few years compared to today. Many owners already power off of solar at home, which is not factored into this analysis. And at least here in California, I have the option and have selected to use electricity generated from the grid that is 100% renewable (it only costs 1 cent more per kWh). The default percent mix of cleanly generated energy from the grid will go up over the next few years in most markets.

If this was all factored in, then the comparison would likely not even be close.

 

[jphillips97]

I think many if you are missing that he was trying to give the ICE an advantage so that no one could reasonably dispute the result. He can point back to giving the ICE all the advantage and the EV still won.

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