Is there demand at the new price?

[shamoo]

It's really, really interesting. While people are using the "no other car that does __" argument that won't be true 2 years from now when they make it through pre-orders and the price increase hits.

There will be abundant competition for the R1T/R1S by 2024, much of it available for less money.

I can't predict the future, but do you think so? I'm skeptical.

There aren't too many manufacturers which set out to satisfy all the needs a Rivian R1S (SUV specific) can offer. There are a lot of fast SUVs (G63, X5M Comp, RR SVR, RSQ8, Cayenne Turbo GT, Urus, etc) and a number of fast wagons that fit your family without issue and can hit weekend track days. Btw, I'm not talking about your run of the mill Porsche Cayenne. Those are not "fast". You can fit big tires on a base Cayenne. You cannot on a Cayenne Turbo GT.

How many of those can ALSO go off-road? With the exception of the GWagon, the others have brakes which are too big and wells too small to fit any semblance of off-roady tire.

EDIT: Just want to point out all those cars above are far more expensive than the Rivian, even after the price increase. You're looking at $130 minimum and some are over $200K, not including tax.

If you think about it, there isn't much of a market for those who want to go very fast AND go off-road. Sure there are the gas guzzler options like the Bronco Raptor but that's really it. I don't think marketing teams will put too much effort into satisfying it all.

Off-road only? Sure.
Performance SUV only? Sure
Both? Not so sure.

And that is why I wanted to buy the car. I don't have the luxury of a 5 car garage so I need something which can do both. All the vehicles I own MUST be fast, or I simply don't want it.

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[mini2nut]

V6 Ford Raptors received a $3,300 price increase last month. A base F150 Raptor is now over $70k with destination fee. That $70k price is before adding a single option such as the 37" performance package, carbon fiber interior, 801a package that virtually all buyers get, etc. Options can easily escalate that price to $80-$85k.

 

[ads75]

I would pass on my current R1T configuration on the new pricing, because I don't think I would want to pay that much for a vehicle. With the dual motor setup, I was considering it, but it isn't available for another couple years. It's not that I don't think it's worth the new prices, I just couldn't justify it for myself. More people will have interest in Rivian once they start hitting the road. It took Tesla awhile also. Ford's Lightning and the GM Hummer pretty much justifies Rivian pricing. The Silverado will probably be in the same neighborhood. Some people are probably holding off on the new pricing, because its significantly higher than it was a week ago, and Rivian has a huge backlog of orders to fill, that may take a couple years. In a year people may not necessarily forget the price bump, but think those who got in before March 1 got a good deal.

 

[Taycanfrank]

The thing to remember is the amount of people buying a Rivian that will actually offroad it represents a small fraction of buyers. The value to those people is higher than the value to the rest of buyers.

Most are buying it as a trendy hipster EV. Many only need 4 seats or less. So if you consider competition to be any EV suv/truck with 4 or more seats, there are a lot of things coming up. Too many to list. Take your pick of car manufacturer and they likely have an option coming out.

It is correct the value is still high for people that will offroad and/or need 7 seats. But if we ever see a consumer report I think those people represent a very small slice of the pie.

Actions speak louder than words and with the price increase we saw mass cancelations. The market said no. Rivian is now banking that by the time they finish pre-orders they'll have earned enough reputation and cachet to justify the higher price.

 

[mini2nut]

At $42 per share I am stocking up on more Rivian stock. I think the company has a great future ahead of it.

 

[No.92]

Is there demand at the new price? Yes.

Is there enough demand to justify a $40 billion market cap? No. They are aiming to compete with Land Rover for customers, I agree. Land Rover isn't worth anything CLOSE to $40B.....all of Tata Motors combined is only worth ~$18 billion right now. There are some crossed wires out there in the markets.

While I don't disagree, but please explain Tesla's stock? Now that is ridiculous

 

[Max]

I know we will all love the R1T and R1S, but if there is no market for them in the future, we are screwed long-term.

Regardless of expectation mismanagement and price-hike, future was always a crap shoot for early adopters. Rivian has done incredible things so far but challenges ahead are not small; They may be slightly ahead but they are operating in a much more competitive EV market than Tesla started in; as a new company, it has to compete for batteries and attention much harder. Long term, mass production of affordable vehicles (R2, ....) at higher volumes and low margins are an entirely different ball game that even experienced auto companies have problem with.

On the positive note, new customers may not feel they are over paying for R1 if they know how much we payed for ours because inflation will be name of the game for everything else they pay for in the next few years so they will be desensitized. I think R.J. took the hit because he understands how important it is for Rivian to get as many of these out there as they can while keeping us happy because their new high paying customers are the ones that see their first R1 in our hands. Talk to us and if we have that big grin on our face, they will want some of that too. I know if Rivian keeps me happy, I will make sure they will have new customers for years to come.

 

[Autolycus]

By the time other options are available in 2024, Rivian will also have announced at least one or more of its R2 vehicles. They will possibly even be producing those as MY2025 at the Georgia plant before the end of 2024. R1 vehicles will definitely sit in the Range Rover and similar market sector, and the R2 vehicles will sit in the Hyundai/Kia-Volvo-Subaru sector, IMO. (yes, that's a weird bunching, but I think those are who the R2 will be cross-shopped against lot)

 

[SoCal Rob]

The thing to remember is the amount of people buying a Rivian that will actually offroad it represents a small fraction of buyers. The value to those people is higher than the value to the rest of buyers.

Most are buying it as a trendy hipster EV. Many only need 4 seats or less. So if you consider competition to be any EV suv/truck with 4 or more seats, there are a lot of things coming up. Too many to list. Take your pick of car manufacturer and they likely have an option coming out.

It is correct the value is still high for people that will offroad and/or need 7 seats. But if we ever see a consumer report I think those people represent a very small slice of the pie.

Actions speak louder than words and with the price increase we saw mass cancelations. The market said no. Rivian is now banking that by the time they finish pre-orders they'll have earned enough reputation and cachet to justify the higher price.

Bringing up what people actually NEED and assuming that relates to what they buy in North America borders on a strawman argument. I think we all know that very few people around us only buy what they need: power, number of seats, convenience features, off-road capability, etc.

I think what most people WANT at this price point in the truck and SUV arena is something which has a lot of outward capability, a lot of outward luxury/convenience or a mix of the two somewhere in-between. I am pretty confident that Rivian will give those people what they want.

 

[SoCal Rob]

While I don't disagree, but please explain Tesla's stock? Now that is ridiculous

I’m confused. Are you asking the previous poster about Tesla (based in the U.S. maker of EVs and solar energy solutions) or Tata (ICE and PHEV maker based in India and parent company of Jaguar & Land Rover brands)? Not sure if there is a miscommunication or if I missed something…
edit: Never mind, I just figured out that you were bringing up Tesla’s crazy valuation unrelated to the previous poster’s text. Doh, sorry!

 

[TollKeeper]

At the new prices, I cant see the demand. Its border line Ford F150 Lariat, pushing into Limited range depending on options. Its not nearly as big as the Ford/Chevy counter part, although it will be cheaper to own (lower e-MPG). Its not as big as the counter parts. It doesnt have the name of the counter parts either. Name is everything, I can say something drives like a Ferrari, doesnt mean it is.

70k was my budget for a new vehicle. I could order a very well optioned ICE Tahoe/Yukon, and save some coin. But the MPG, at current gas prices, pushed me over to the EV side, at a 5k over budget premium.

I will be honest, if it had not been for the engine problems that GM has at the moment, my order would be with GM.

 

[lmr]

I would have paid 104k. Yes, there is demand.

Yes, I would have paid as much as a new Model X as well...

 

[grantsi]

Same.

Ditto

 

[Rousie13]

At the new prices, I cant see the demand. Its border line Ford F150 Lariat, pushing into Limited range depending on options. Its not nearly as big as the Ford/Chevy counter part, although it will be cheaper to own (lower e-MPG). Its not as big as the counter parts. It doesnt have the name of the counter parts either. Name is everything, I can say something drives like a Ferrari, doesnt mean it is.

70k was my budget for a new vehicle. I could order a very well optioned ICE Tahoe/Yukon, and save some coin. But the MPG, at current gas prices, pushed me over to the EV side, at a 5k over budget premium.

I will be honest, if it had not been for the engine problems that GM has at the moment, my order would be with GM.

I’m sure a lot of people do not want a half ton size truck and don’t need it…..I am one of those people. I previously had a 2500 Duramax, but I don’t need/want a large truck anymore.

I also do not want to deal with Ford/Chevy dealers….bad experiences and I want no part of that again.

Also I don’t need a truck, but it will be nice to have for those 2 times a year when my wife wants to buy something big from IKEA/Costco. However, I do want something luxurious feeling and fast. I want one vehicle to do those things for me and not need multiple vehicles.

I previously had a JLUR, so it will be nice to have that off-road capability even if I never use it…..I know I can if I want to.

 

[Friscorays]

Yes. The large majority of the population has no idea what a Rivian is. Early adopters will serve as effective advertising. A certain proportion of people who become aware of Rivian will want one and those people will pay the increased price (which they will simply know as the price).

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