Introduction and some EV Overlanding trip reports

Bobu

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I'm waiting for the Rivian to be available in Europe. I'm not sure if I prefer the R1S or the R1T but I would definitely get the max battery pack. My guess is that I won't be able to buy a Rivian with max battery before end of 2023 in Germany. Until then I use an Audi e-tron for my EV Overlanding trips.

Last year I drove all the way through Finland to the North Cape and then back along the Norwegian Coastline with an e-tron.
You can find the trip reports and YT video here:
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/10/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-i/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/18/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-ii/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/24/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-iii/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/30/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-iv/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/11/06/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-v/



This year we explored the remote highlands of Iceland with an e-tron. I've just finished the first parts of the trip report:
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/10/15/audi-e-tron-in-iceland-1-f910-austurleid/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/10/30/audi-e-tron-in-iceland-2-f909-and-f923/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/12/...land-3-kjolur-kerlingarfjoll-and-thingvellir/






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DuckTruck

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I'm waiting for the Rivian to be available in Europe. I'm not sure if I prefer the R1S or the R1T but I would definitely get the max battery pack. My guess is that I won't be able to buy a Rivian with max battery before end of 2023 in Germany. Until then I use an Audi e-tron for my EV Overlanding trips.

Last year I drove all the way through Finland to the North Cape and then back along the Norwegian Coastline with an e-tron.
You can find the trip reports and YT video here:
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/10/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-i/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/18/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-ii/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/24/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-iii/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/10/30/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-iv/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2020/11/06/nordkapp-road-trip-with-audi-e-tron-part-v/



This year we explored the remote highlands of Iceland with an e-tron. I've just finished the first parts of the trip report:
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/10/15/audi-e-tron-in-iceland-1-f910-austurleid/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/10/30/audi-e-tron-in-iceland-2-f909-and-f923/
https://ev-overlanding.com/2021/12/...land-3-kjolur-kerlingarfjoll-and-thingvellir/






Boris,

Welcome to the The Forums. I'm intrigued by your story and looking forward to checking out your videos when I'm back home. I'm also hoping to hear more of your perspective of Rivian from a European point of view.

Thanks for providing the links and for jumping into the pool with us!
 
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Bobu

Bobu

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I'm also hoping to hear more of your perspective of Rivian from a European point of view.
Thanks! I think from the European perspective the R1S is probably the more useful/common vehicle compared to the R1T. Pickups are rare here. One problem in Europe could be, that the maximum vehicle weight of a standard passenger car is limited to 3500 kg. If you go above this limit, the vehicle would be registered in a different category, which means you need a different driving license, have far lower speed limits and have to pay more for road usage in certain countries. I have this license and would be willing to accept these limitations, but most people won't. Rivian will probably offer a version for Europe with a maximum weight of 3500kg and very limited loading capacity. Not ideal.
My preferred combination would be a R1S with a full size spare tire, at least 1000 kg loading capacity and the large 180 kWh battery. But sadly this combination will likely never exist.
 

DuckTruck

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Thanks! I think from the European perspective the R1S is probably the more useful/common vehicle compared to the R1T. Pickups are rare here. One problem in Europe could be, that the maximum vehicle weight of a standard passenger car is limited to 3500 kg. If you go above this limit, the vehicle would be registered in a different category, which means you need a different driving license, have far lower speed limits and have to pay more for road usage in certain countries. I have this license and would be willing to accept these limitations, but most people won't. Rivian will probably offer a version for Europe with a maximum weight of 3500kg and very limited loading capacity. Not ideal.
My preferred combination would be a R1S with a full size spare tire, at least 1000 kg loading capacity and the large 180 kWh battery. But sadly this combination will likely never exist.
Having visited Europe and the U.K., I imagine the R1S will be a bigger hit there. Looking forward to seeing how they're received.

During our visit to the factory event in July, RJ talked about upcoming generations likely including essentially smaller versions of the R1T and R1S for Europe, the U.K., and Asia.

I'd imagine smaller, but related versions will be a big hit around the world (and here, if offered).
 

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The R1S is going to be close to that 3500kg limit but I think its just under that.

It'll be interesting to see if an electric truck will break through in the EU where other ICE trucks haven't been able to. For those who do get trucks do they tend to be full size or mid size trucks?
 

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Wow, what beautiful videos! Instant subscriber :)
 

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The R1S is going to be close to that 3500kg limit but I think its just under that.

It'll be interesting to see if an electric truck will break through in the EU where other ICE trucks haven't been able to. For those who do get trucks do they tend to be full size or mid size trucks?
I was thinking the same thing about the weight ratings, but remembered that the GVWR is more than just the weight of the vehicle. Here's an interesting article from insideevs from late September explaining the higher (than I expected) rating:

(Apologies for the strange array of bullet points)

"Rivian R1T's Gross Vehicle Weight Makes It A Heavy-Duty Truck
The R1T has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 8,532 lbs (3,870 kg), making it an EPA Class 2b vehicle.
sddefault.jpg

Sep 27, 2021 at 1:40pm ET
By: Dan Mihalascu
Over the weekend, Rivian released the owner’s manual for the R1T pickup, revealing some interesting new details about the electric truck.

Perhaps the most interesting is the R1T’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 8,532 lbs (3,870 kg). That implies that it won’t be classified as a half-ton pickup but as a 3/4-ton heavy-duty truck, mostly due to the added weight of the battery pack.

The EPA rules that trucks weighing between 8,501 to 10,000 lbs (3,856–4,536 kg) are classified as EPA Class 2b, which puts the Rivian R1T in the same category as the Ford F-250, Chevrolet Silverado 2500, and Ram 2500.

Trucks in this segment are designed to handle tougher work and higher loads than their half-ton counterparts (the F-150, Silverado 1500, and Ram 1500). To get an idea where to place the R1T in the current market, here are the GVWR ratings for many other popular pickup trucks, courtesy of TFL Truck.

  • Toyota Tacoma: GVWR = 5,600 lbs
  • Ford Ranger: GVWR = 6,050 lbs
  • Rivian R1T's Gross Vehicle Weight Makes It A Heavy-Duty Truck
  • The R1T has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 8,532 lbs (3,870 kg), making it an EPA Class 2b vehicle.

  • Sep 27, 2021 at 1:40pm ET
  • By: Dan Mihalascu
  • Over the weekend, Rivian released the owner’s manual for the R1T pickup, revealing some interesting new details about the electric truck.


  • Perhaps the most interesting is the R1T’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 8,532 lbs (3,870 kg). That implies that it won’t be classified as a half-ton pickup but as a 3/4-ton heavy-duty truck, mostly due to the added weight of the battery pack.

  • The EPA rules that trucks weighing between 8,501 to 10,000 lbs (3,856–4,536 kg) are classified as EPA Class 2b, which puts the Rivian R1T in the same category as the Ford F-250, Chevrolet Silverado 2500, and Ram 2500.

  • Trucks in this segment are designed to handle tougher work and higher loads than their half-ton counterparts (the F-150, Silverado 1500, and Ram 1500). To get an idea where to place the R1T in the current market, here are the GVWR ratings for many other popular pickup trucks, courtesy of TFL Truck.

  • Toyota Tacoma: GVWR = 5,600 lbs
  • Ford Ranger: GVWR = 6,050 lbs
  • Nissan Frontier: GVWR = 6,012 lbs
  • Ford F-150 Hybrid: GVWR = 7,350 lbs
  • Toyota Tundra Hybrid: GVWR = 7,660 lbs
  • Rivian R1T: GVWR = 8,532 lbs
  • Nissan Titan XD: GVWR = 8,800 lbs
  • Chevy Silverado 2500: GVWR = 10,850 lbsFord F-150 Hybrid: GVWR = 7,350 lbs
  • Toyota Tundra Hybrid: GVWR = 7,660 lbs
  • Rivian R1T: GVWR = 8,532 lbs
  • Nissan Titan XD: GVWR = 8,800 lbs
  • Chevy Silverado 2500: GVWR = 10,850 lbs"
Here's the full article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/536753/rivian-r1t-gvwr-heavy-duty/amp/
 
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dleewla

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Yikes! 8500?!? Guess they're definitely going to have to make a lighter version for EU.
 

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Yikes! 8500?!? Guess they're definitely going to have to make a lighter version for EU.
They need to just rewrite these rules. From my amateur understanding, GVWR is a combination of what the vehicle weighs plus what it can carry. So, if that's the case, these rules were clearly written to account for the fact that high GVWR ICE vehicles weighed slightly more, but more importantly were designed to haul greater loads. And if they were carrying more loads (heavy duty), they a) were likely being used in more of a commercial fashion and b) posed special safety concerns. This is likely what made them determine they should have special licensing rules to account for the use case.

However, in EV world, there will be many vehicles that trip this rule and not for the right (wrong?) reason. For example, a Range Rover EV would trip this (just as the R1S does), and I suspect they change the rules real fast when that happens. They just have not had to encounter the possibility, until now.
 
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Bobu

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For those who do get trucks do they tend to be full size or mid size trucks?
Definitely mid size, the most common one is the Ford Ranger, probably followed by the VW Amarok (now out of production). You nearly never see full size trucks in Europe. And even mid size trucks are a rare occurence. But SUVs, even large ones, are extremely popular.
 
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Bobu

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Wow, what beautiful videos! Instant subscriber :)
Thanks a lot! I could really need a couple more subscribers. Editing a single 6 minutes video takes me more than 20 hours. If nobody watches them it's a bit frustrating.
 
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Bobu

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Yikes! 8500?!? Guess they're definitely going to have to make a lighter version for EU.
3800kg would definitely mean the Rivian would be in a different class, requiring a different driving license. And even worse you then have a 800 HP car which can only drive 80 km/h on road without a speed limit. I would use the Rivian only as a second car for offroading and long distance overlanding trips. But as a daily driver this would be a show-stopper for most people.

And a lighter version won't be easy. The battery has a lot of weight and if you build the car for offroad usage, it has to be robust.
 
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Bobu

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They need to just rewrite these rules. From my amateur understanding, GVWR is a combination of what the vehicle weighs plus what it can carry. So, if that's the case, these rules were clearly written to account for the fact that high GVWR ICE vehicles weighed slightly more, but more importantly were designed to haul greater loads. And if they were carrying more loads (heavy duty), they a) were likely being used in more of a commercial fashion and b) posed special safety concerns. This is likely what made them determine they should have special licensing rules to account for the use case.

However, in EV world, there will be many vehicles that trip this rule and not for the right (wrong?) reason. For example, a Range Rover EV would trip this (just as the R1S does), and I suspect they change the rules real fast when that happens. They just have not had to encounter the possibility, until now.
I'm 100% sure this won't happen. Even if they are willing to change the rules (which they are not at the moment), it would typically take about 10 years. Any manufacturer just hoping that the EU will just change the rules, will lose this market. It's the same in the U.S. with their different safety and OBD requirements, you can't just hope that they will adapt to the EU rules, especially not fast.

Another question is, would it even be good to change the rules. It forces the manufacturers to build lighter cars and invest into lightweight battery technology. Lighter cars equal less energy consumption (with the additional benefit of enhanced driving dynamics). From the environmental/sustainability perspective not a bad idea ...
 

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3800kg would definitely mean the Rivian would be in a different class, requiring a different driving license. And even worse you then have a 800 HP car which can only drive 80 km/h on road without a speed limit. I would use the Rivian only as a second car for offroading and long distance overlanding trips. But as a daily driver this would be a show-stopper for most people.

And a lighter version won't be easy. The battery has a lot of weight and if you build the car for offroad usage, it has to be robust.
Yes, they'd definitely have to go smaller battery and smaller overall dimensions to get down below that weight. Or be willing to sacrifice range. It'll likely be compact SUV size I'd imagine so they can keep range near 250-300 miles.
 
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Yes, they'd definitely have to go smaller battery and smaller overall dimensions to get down below that weight. Or be willing to sacrifice range. It'll likely be compact SUV size I'd imagine so they can keep range near 250-300 miles.
But then they will compete with other options on the market. For me, the USP of the Rivian is its 180 kWh battery pack (in addition to its 1m wading depth which really helps in Iceland).
 
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