Installing EV charges at my businesses - Usage/Needs by EV owners?

[Zoidz]

I'm evaluating installing L2 and/or DC Chargers at several business locations - the engineering company I work for (the owner and I are the final decision makers) and several brewpub locations that he and I co-own. SInce I don't yet own an EV, I don't really know peoples' usage patterns. These questions are primarily directed to people who own EVs.

At all locations we own the real estate, so there are no installation limitations, other than any local zoning/codes issues. 240 VAC and 480 VAC 3 phase is readily available. Our engineering techs are licensed electricians and heavily experienced with commercial/industrial electical installations, so we will do all the work. All locations are located 1-2 minutes from high volume, 4 lane highways with 10,000+ vehicles a day. There are currently VERY FEW chargers in a 15 mile radius of these locations. Residential units are mostly single family homes, meaning that EV owners could presumably charge at home with ease.

Location 1 is a mixed use building with us and a tenant we lease space to. Potential users are full time employees, and transient customers of our medical services tenant, who spend an hour or two at the location. This location has 3 hotels within 5 miles that have chargers, plus a BMW dealer and a Ford Dealer that have chargers. In our area, we see very few EVs on the road. I see one or two every other day. This is not EV territory like it is in SoCal or DC. I actually see more Mennonite and Amish Horse and Buggys and bicyclers daily than I do EVs, I'm *not* making that up!!!!

Locations 2 & 3 are restaurants. People are there 45 - 90 minutes typically. These locations have one Level 2 Charger within 15 miles. Presumably the local Ford dealer would be installing a charger soon. The goal here is to provide a convenience to customers who would spend money on food and drink while charging, not to make the charge station a profit center.

Questions:
1. How often do/would you use an L2 charger on the road? ($10k investment for us)
2. How often do/would you use a DC charger on the road? ($40k investment for us)
3. If you lived near a restaurant location (within 15 miles), and can charge at home, would you use a charger while you were at the restaurant?
4. If you were on a road trip, and a restaurant had a charger, would you specifically stop there to use the charger while you had a meal or drink?
5. If you were on a road trip, would you consider it worthwhile to use an L2 Charger for an hour at a restaurant, or only if it was a DC charger?

Thanks for any answers and comments are welcome, of course.

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[xyskis]

Questions:
1. How often do/would you use an L2 charger on the road? ($10k investment for us)
2. How often do/would you use a DC charger on the road? ($40k investment for us)
3. If you lived near a restaurant location (within 15 miles), and can charge at home, would you use a charger while you were at the restaurant?
4. If you were on a road trip, and a restaurant had a charger, would you specifically stop there to use the charger while you had a meal or drink?
5. If you were on a road trip, would you consider it worthwhile to use an L2 Charger for an hour at a restaurant, or only if it was a DC charger

1. I only use L2 when I’m traveling a moderate distance (80-120 miles) to a destination that I expect to stay at for 1.5-2hr+ for meaningful charge or when I charge at work where there are free L2 stalls.
2. Use the DC fast charger when road tripping via Tesla super chargers. Other DCFC I’ve used aren’t that fast and frequently out of service or cost $ out of the supercharger network so I don’t use it.
3. No
4. Yes
5. DCFC, would (and have) otherwise take food to go and charge at Tesla supercharging station

Hope that helps.Glad you’re asking these questions to maximize the use of your capital.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

1. Probably not too often, to be honest. I'll be doing L2 charging at home or at a hotel if I'm staying the night. For short-term stops (like meals) I'd either not charge or prefer DCFC, I think.

2. Around town I rarely would. But if I'm on a trip then definitely! If you're near a major highway then having a good DCFC and listing it in PlugShare will most likely have EV owners seeking out your business -- and you mentioned brewpubs? Yea, those customers are going to buy drinks and food, too.

3. If it's local to me, no, unless I was doing a lot of driving that day and needed some extra range to get home.

4. Absolutely! All things being equal, the location with the DCFC is going to get my business over the one without.

5. Depends on what else was around. If there was nothing else available in the general area then I'd take what I could get. If I needed food then might as well get some range, too. But if there's a DCFC nearby (within say 30 minutes and I have range to get there) then I'd probably skip the L2 and go to the DCFC and eat near there.

 

[DucRider]

1) L2 on the road: pretty much never
2) DCFC is the only thing I rely on when on the road. Hotels with L2 are attractive if available. DCFC at a restaurant would attract me.
3) Not likely. If it was free, I might if it was available but would tend to leave it open for someone that really needed a charge.
4) It would definitely be a plus (very minor + for L2)
5) L2 would be a minor attraction, DCFC much more so

A few other considerations:

• A single unit is significantly less attractive than multiple plugs (more likely to be working and available)
• I would gladly pay for charging (particularly DCFC)- EA pricing is not a bad guideline to use but a discount for customers would be attractive
• Don't forget about demand charges if you install DCFC. It could be a very unpleasant surprise.

 

[Gator42]

1. I only use L2 when I’m traveling a moderate distance (80-120 miles) to a destination that I expect to stay at for 1.5-2hr+ for meaningful charge or when I charge at work where there are free L2 stalls.
2. Use the DC fast charger when road tripping via Tesla super chargers. Other DCFC I’ve used aren’t that fast and frequently out of service or cost $ out of the supercharger network so I don’t use it.
3. No
4. Yes
5. DCFC, would (and have) otherwise take food to go and charge at Tesla supercharging station

Hope that helps.Glad you’re asking these questions to maximize the use of your capital.

I agree with this. On point #3 there is an argument to be made for attracting urban EV users where home charging is either not an option or is inconvenient. My condo building has a few L2 chargers in the parking garage but I know my neighbors often head to Whole Foods for a meal or coffee while they top off their battery in the parking lot...

 

[Zach05855]

there is an expression that EV'ers use ..."ABC"

Always Be Charging


So wherever I go, if there is a free charger then I hookup no matter how long I will be at the location.

And I do make decisions where I go, if I can charge while I am there.

 

[SeaGeo]

I tend to look at these in a couple of ways, that you kind of hinted at. I find L2 to be great at workplaces (particularly in say rural areas). Or to support apartments, renters, or homeowners who can't reasonably put in a dedicated L2 EVSE. Or at a hotel.

1. How often do/would you use an L2 charger on the road? ($10k investment for us)

While on the road? In infrequently unless I'm desperate or it's conveniently located to a stop I would plan on making. If I'm looking for chargers while road dripping, I'm filtering by only DCFC unless forced not to.

2. How often do/would you use a DC charger on the road? ($40k investment for us)

Yep! There's some calculus there with speed though. If I'm going from Seattle to Boise (for example), I won't use a 50 kW charger unless I'm looking for a place to eat. At which point the 50kW charger would potentially pull me into the charger.

3. If you lived near a restaurant location (within 15 miles), and can charge at home, would you use a charger while you were at the restaurant?

Depends. If it's L2, sure. Probably not if it's DCFC to not use a stall and to avoid the added cost. But I wouldn't underestimate the number of people renting or living in older homes with panels that would require an upgrade that is very expensive. I went several years relying on 120v at home and jumping between L2 chargers with our PHEV. Which is another point - people who drive PHEV's are more likely to jump on L2 chargers no matter where they are because of ABC.

4. If you were on a road trip, and a restaurant had a charger, would you specifically stop there to use the charger while you had a meal or drink?

All things equal, it'd push me to it.

5. If you were on a road trip, would you consider it worthwhile to use an L2 Charger for an hour at a restaurant, or only if it was a DC charger?

DC only other than in extreme conditions. If the DC infrastructure sucks around you, I'd look to the L2, but that wouldn't be a huge draw. Even 25kW DCFC would be interesting (like what Grizzl-e is releasing) and may be less expensive to install.



What're you considering for DCFC? Have you reached out to any of the networks to gauge their interest to install chargers on your property?

 

[Big_Ike]

Questions:
1. How often do/would you use an L2 charger on the road? ($10k investment for us)
I've only used L2 chargers at hotels that I've stayed when on the road.
2. How often do/would you use a DC charger on the road? ($40k investment for us)
I've only owned Teslas, so only used the Supercharger network
3. If you lived near a restaurant location (within 15 miles), and can charge at home, would you use a charger while you were at the restaurant?
I would not
4. If you were on a road trip, and a restaurant had a charger, would you specifically stop there to use the charger while you had a meal or drink?
If the charger was a slower DCFC and I knew I'd have a good hour to relax I would certainly consider it. I've been stuck at slower DC chargers unintentionally and would have loved to have had a better meal than the fast food I've ended up eating.
5. If you were on a road trip, would you consider it worthwhile to use an L2 Charger for an hour at a restaurant, or only if it was a DC charger?
See Answer 4 above.

 

[Zoidz]

What're you considering for DCFC? Have you reached out to any of the networks to gauge their interest to install chargers on your property?

I've only looked at Chargepoint hardware, just to get ballpark costs for direct purchase/operation of commercial L2 and DCFC equipment. I am putting together a list of networks to contact. Blink and Chargepoint are on the list. Any others?

 

[Big_Ike]

I've only looked at Chargepoint hardware, just to get ballpark costs for direct purchase/operation of commercial L2 and DCFC equipment. I am putting together a list of networks to contact. Blink and Chargepoint are on the list. Any others?

Volta? I see them in Whole Foods parking lots. I think they're L2 and little to no cost to the property owner. They do run ads on their marques and I don't know what influence the property owner may have on the ad choices.

 

[SeaGeo]

I've only looked at Chargepoint hardware, just to get ballpark costs for direct purchase/operation of commercial L2 and DCFC equipment. I am putting together a list of networks to contact. Blink and Chargepoint are on the list. Any others?

Greenlots?
https://greenlots.com/

Maybe just pinging EA if they're interested?

I'm not sure how the 25kW grizzl-e gets integrated into a network.

 

[DanH]

I've only looked at Chargepoint hardware, just to get ballpark costs for direct purchase/operation of commercial L2 and DCFC equipment. I am putting together a list of networks to contact. Blink and Chargepoint are on the list. Any others?

I believe EVgo and Electrify America, I think even Volta own their own chargers. You would have to convince them and partner with them.

If you want to own the chargers yourself and pay for it all, then you have Chargepoint, Blink, EVbox, and a few others, this is for DC fast chargers.

If you want just L2s you could just install some Clipper Creek or really anyone else, probably a commercial model for a lot less. If you want to charge for those L2s, then you probably need a network partner which I would assume would cost a decent amount more.

 

[crashmtb]

I've only looked at Chargepoint hardware, just to get ballpark costs for direct purchase/operation of commercial L2 and DCFC equipment. I am putting together a list of networks to contact. Blink and Chargepoint are on the list. Any others?

Rivian ?

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