Inside Electrify America’s plan to simplify electric car charging

OP
EyeOnRivian

EyeOnRivian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
444
Reaction score
347
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicles
Mitsubishi Endeavor, pre-ordered R1S but may change to R1T
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #106
Steering this back to the OP - "Inside Electrify America’s plan to simplify electric car charging" - Alex from his E for Electric yt channel posted an interesting video where his guest Tom Moloughney, an InsideEVs contributor, gave a report of an exclusive interview he had with EA's CEO, COO and I believe the director of technology to understand some of the problems and challenges EA had and still are facing.

It's fairly long so I recommend playing it back at least at times 1.25 speed and watching to nearly the end, say until there is 2 minutes left. The YT link below should jump you into the video at the 3:47 mark. If I had the time I would bullet point out some of the major points that I was at least not aware of with the EA past, present and future circumstances that Tom reported.

 
Last edited:

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
736
Reaction score
613
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
I read an article about those interviews, and learned a lot as well.

Good news is that EA has a solid understanding now of challenges, and I think they will be able to improve, especially as they narrow their DCFC equipment suppliers down to the best 2.

They will now have to go to per Kwh billing instead of by the minute; at least for California due to recent legislation, but I think it makes sense to support just a single business model nationwide.

I'm most curious about whether they can bring down the pricing to be more competitive with Tesla. Won't be much of an issue for me, as I will charge from home 98% of the time, & won't mind paying gas-like prices on rare occasion...I pay them all the time right now!
 
OP
EyeOnRivian

EyeOnRivian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
444
Reaction score
347
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicles
Mitsubishi Endeavor, pre-ordered R1S but may change to R1T
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #108
Last edited:

Feathermerchant

Active Member
First Name
James
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
9
Location
Euless, Tx
First Name
James
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 P+, 2011 F150 SC 8ft bed
If EA is profitable, they will NEVER match Tesla's charging prices.
Tesla maintains that its Supercharging network will not be a profit center.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
531
Reaction score
212
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
There is often more to things than meets the eye. There is a company that offers vehicle charging in Quebec and eastern Ontario that charges less than Tesla per kWh and presumably does so while making a profit because they keep adding chargers. How is it possible for them to do this? Well for starters, Quebec is really, really green and may be giving them some big tax advantages. Second, they are owned (I believe) by Quebec Hydro and thus clearly get a pretty sweet deal on electricity (Quebec Hydro is owned by the province). Thus it is possible to build out a profitable charging network that is less expensive than Tesla's if you have the right sweet deals in place. EA clearly doesn't.
 
Last edited:

Feathermerchant

Active Member
First Name
James
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
9
Location
Euless, Tx
First Name
James
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 P+, 2011 F150 SC 8ft bed
So Tesla has Superchargers in the same area using power from the same utility and charges more $/kWh for charging?
If the chargers you speak of are Qebec Hydro then I see it as a possibility as utilities have very different financing than other kinds of companies and are not expected to generate the same return on investment. They may have government incentives reducing their cost.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
531
Reaction score
212
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
So Tesla has Superchargers in the same area using power from the same utility and charges more $/kWh for charging?
Yes, in the same parking lots of the same hotels and stores.

If the chargers you speak of are Qebec Hydro then I see it as a possibility
They are not Quebec Hydro. They are owned and operated by a separate company called Circuit Electrique.

as utilities have very different financing than other kinds of companies and are not expected to generate the same return on investment.
They are if they are investor owned. Conversely they may be co-ops or government (at any level) owned and only required to meet their operating and cap expenses.

They may have government incentives reducing their cost.
Yes, they may as was pointed out in No 110 the point of which was that if you have sweet deals in place with
1)the power company
2)the land lord
3)the taxing authorities
4)equipment suppliers

and can operate efficiently you can make a profit charging less than Tesla does. EA evidently has none of these as they cannot keep their system operational even though they are billing at rates appreciably higher than Tesla's. Those of us with Rivian deposits are, of course, hoping that EA will get their problems ironed out and praying that they don't go TU. Higher costs for the 15% of charging I do at DC chargers I can live with. No DC chargers where I drive I cannot live with. Lack of improvement in the CCS charging infrastructure is the thing most likely to cause me to cancel my Rivian reservation (other than being hit by the beer truck).
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
736
Reaction score
613
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
I crunched some numbers on how "expensive" EA chargers will be in comparison to my current vehicles. Without using their $4/month subscription, the price is on par with gas for my commuter vehicle, even with Rivian being less efficient than many other EVs. If you plan to use an EA charger for 30 minutes at least once a month, then it's a no brainer to get the cheaper rates with the $4/mo; that ends up being cheaper than buying gas.

Personally, I will charge at home with rare use of DCFC on road trips, and I'm fine paying gas-like costs for those rare occasions.

I think people get hung up on comparing charging rates (Tesla against others) versus comparing charging rates to fuel for ICE vehicles.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
531
Reaction score
212
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
As one of the major selling points for BEV's, often put forth as compensation for the high initial cost of them, is cost savings in fuel I have to believe (and I've said it here and elsewhere before) that RIvian will subsidize charging some how to some extent.
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
736
Reaction score
613
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
As one of the major selling points for BEV's, often put forth as compensation for the high initial cost of them, is cost savings in fuel I have to believe (and I've said it here and elsewhere before) that RIvian will subsidize charging some how to some extent.
I agree that operational economics can be a "justification". But let's be honest, those willing to pay for Rivian or Tesla S/X are not overly worried about the practical economics. We want performance, luxury, or cool tech, and we're willing to pay for it.

However, it might be a legitimate consideration at the lower end of the EV market.

But I do hope Rivian works out something to make charging cheaper and/or easier for their customers.
 

Billyk24

Active Member
First Name
William
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
4
Location
PA
First Name
William
Vehicles
Ford C-Max Energi, Premium Mach-E ordered
Occupation
health care
Electrify America continues to grow as of May 11, 2020 there was 428 total sites with 111 in planning stages, that means 1467 CCS fast chargers, 428 CHAdeMo chargers and 97 level 2 chargers. Feb. 1, 2020 EA had 398 total sites
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
531
Reaction score
212
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Also it looks as if their prices are coming down out of the stratosphere. Anyone else notice this?
 
Top