If you could be on the CCS or Super Charger network moving forward, which would you choose?

[Bee]

The discussion for general Tesla standard opening can be found here. Long story short, if Rivian decided, they could switch standards. Cannot italicize if enough, it's doubtful any OEMs will adopt it car-side that aren't smaller startup status like Aptera. That being said, companies like Rivian could do it if they wanted.

Let's try not to mix discussions as much as possible (as if I have any say in the matter) and limit the thread to what would you choose. Like I hate a lot about this and Tesla, especially Musk in general but I'd still click the Tesla option.

So the question, if you had a configurator in front of you and could choose "CCS" or "Tesla" (I'm not calling it North American) which would you choose?

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[Donald Stanfield]

I chose CSS and I’ll tell you why. Right now, the Tesla network is leaps and bounds better and no one would deny that. Thing is I don’t want to have my car dependent on a charger owned and operated by a manufacturer that’s a direct competitor to the one I own.

Opening up the Tesla standard is an obvious move to get government funding, but the government bill says nothing about having to charge the same rate for everyone. There’s nothing stopping Musk from encouraging all manufacturers to switch to his platform then double the charging prices for all but Tesla vehicles or somehow give priority charging access to his stuff. So say the whole bank is full and a Tesla pulls up, yours shuts off and you need to wait for the Tesla to charge.

If manufacturers like Rivian all switch to Tesla standard CSS won’t get any better. That Is setting up the charging infrastructure to be a remake of standard oil, which was broken up as a monopoly. I won’t prioritize short term convenience for long term viability.

Also I obviously disagree with the limiting discussion part. Without a reason a decision is useless. With that said I agree we shouldn’t use stupid reasons like disliking Musk personally or whining about Twitter or whatever. Those are not valid reasons and allowing the discussion will find out if your reason is valid or not.

 

[Rhidan]

Tesla plugs are not a standard.

CCS is the North American standard, and it would be foolish to manufacture a vehicle that is non-CCS.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Tesla plugs are not a standard.

CCS is the North American standard, and it would be foolish to manufacture a vehicle that is non-CCS.

To be fair they ARE a standard, they are Tesla standard.

EDIT: after reading the definition of standard the Tesla plug is not a standard. I’m leaving this comment intact for thread continuity but I no longer agree with what I wrote.

 

[Bee]

Tesla plugs are not a standard.

CCS is the North American standard, and it would be foolish to manufacture a vehicle that is non-CCS.

I bent over backwards to try and make this point so we wouldn't get into a rabbit hole discussion.

Forget anything about it other than what would you choose at the configurator. A good way to express this thought in this context would be like, "Never, I'd always pick CCS cause I hate the idea of a Tesla standard" or "I'd choose Tesla because ultimately I have to live with it but I'm pretty offended overall at this."

Edit: This came off dickish, sorry, just trying to be conscious of not forking the general discussion and think this is a genuinely different topic.

 

[manitou202]

I would prefer to have CCS with a Tesla adapter and an open Tesla Super Charger network. I could use CCS and occasionally Tesla's network with the adapter if needed.

Long term CCS will be the dominate charging network and I wouldn't want to move away from that.

Plus the current location of the charging port on the R1X will make it difficult to use Tesla chargers. It's on the opposite side of the vehicle when charging and will force you to block a charger from a Tesla vehicle. It's going to be messy if Tesla opens their network. Many chargers will be blocked.

 

[fbitz777]

I voted for Tesla because the plug is much sexier and I don't waste time swiping my phone like at EA.

I have 3 CCS cars (Ioniq, Rivian, Bolt) and a Tesla X
I also have EA Superchager next to Tesla down the road from me.

Only plus for EA is for now they charge less to charge but it is hard to make a case when EA charges by the minute at that location (makes no sense) while Tesla charges by Kwh.

 

[fbitz777]

There is also the case of Tesla providing CCS plugs on their network or Evgo providing Tesla plugs
both of which require no changes to our Rivians/Teslas

 

[Rhidan]

I bent over backwards to try and make this point so we wouldn't get into a rabbit hole discussion.

Forget anything about it other than what would you choose at the configurator. A good way to express this thought in this context would be like, "Never, I'd always pick CCS cause I hate the idea of a Tesla standard" or "I'd choose Tesla because ultimately I have to live with it but I'm pretty offended overall at this."

I think you are confused about what I’m saying.

There is no Tesla “standard.” A standard is technical standard set by international standards organization. Among other things, a company participating in a standard agrees to provide licenses to their intellectual property underlying the standard at FRAND rates. Moreover, it allows development of other compatible infrastructure (i.e., DCFC stations) that are universally compatible with the standard. Consumers benefit when industries agree on technical standards, and it would generally be foolish to want a product that goes against adopted standards in the industry.

There is a CCS standard. The standard is set by the International Electrotechnical Commission.

This has nothing to do with Tesla. If the Tesla plug was the adopted industry standard, then I would certainly prefer the Tesla plug.

 

[Joints4Sale]

Before the truck was delivered, I was hoping that we would have a CCS port in the current location and a Tesla port on the opposite side.

 

[Olsonsolar]

I like the Tesla plug, it is simpler. But I would choose CCS. It is a more world - manufacturer standard. Tesla is a company owned standard. Which leads to too many unknowns of limiting non Tesla charging and cost to charge non Tesla vs Tesla brand.

 

[domoplaytime]

I voted for CCS because of momentum. It won't be long before there are far more CCS vehicles than Supercharger capable ones, even if one or two big manufacturers decide to switch to supporting Supercharging. The demand for CCS will hopefully support a handful of competitive charging providers.

In 2015 I bought a CHAdeMO adapter for my Model S so I could drive the 101 coastal highway from WA to CA. I went off-route from the existing Supercharging stops, but thankfully I had options. Eventually the supercharging network expanded and I stopped using my CHAdeMO adapter (last time was in Madras, OR for the 2017 eclipse). I believe CCS will give me the most options in the future, and I suppose that matters more to me than reliability.

P.S. I dislike the CCS plug immensely and I miss the satisfying clunk from easily securing my home charging cable for the Tesla. It's like how one never forgets the feel of using an HP-48 calculator.

 

[COdogman]

This is will be my first EV although we’ve been an EV/ hybrid family for years. I voted for CCS mostly for the same reasons @Donald Stanfield noted. CCS is actually the only “standard” in discussion. Tesla‘s chargers are their own proprietary design. I would really want to avoid tying myself to that situation not being a Tesla owner because I truly do not trust Musk (or anyone else in the same situation) to not screw over the non Tesla owners.

Don’t get me wrong, it would be amazing to be able to use both, but if I had to choose 1 it would be CCS.

 

[Madsen203]

Tesla is a better plug experience. CCS is a flipping loaf of bread.

 

[electruck]

Plus the current location of the charging port on the R1X will make it difficult to use Tesla chargers. It's on the opposite side of the vehicle when charging and will force you to block a charger from a Tesla vehicle. It's going to be messy if Tesla opens their network. Many chargers will be blocked.

I like the Tesla plug, it is simpler. But I would choose CCS. It is a more world - manufacturer standard. Tesla is a company owned standard. Which leads to too many unknowns of limiting non Tesla charging and cost to charge non Tesla vs Tesla brand.

Tesla‘s chargers are their own proprietary design. I would really want to avoid tying myself to that situation not being a Tesla owner because I truly do not trust Musk (or anyone else in the same situation) to not screw over the non Tesla owners.

I see a lot of people conflating the use of the Tesla spec (spec as it is not yet a standard, although Tesla appears to be working toward that) vs using the Tesla Supercharger network. They are related but not the same. Issues of charger layout vs vehicle port location or Tesla charging different rates or otherwise screwing over other makes is an issue of using the Tesla network, not the Tesla spec. Hypothetically speaking, if Rivian wanted to adopt the Tesla spec, they could update the vehicle charging port and re-design their RAN charging stations to conform to the Tesla spec but still have full control of the equipment layout, fees, etc.

Which would I choose, given the option? Probably the Tesla spec. It seems to be the superior spec in a number of ways.

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