Hummer Copies Rivian: No Wonder GM & Rivian Couldn't Reach a Deal

RobBot

Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
23
Reaction score
37
Location
Texas
First Name
Rob
Vehicles
2007 Toyota Tacoma
I think companies are throwing out the pHev's, where they could offer a great way to get more people with range anxiety into electric vehicles. 30-40 miles is plenty of range for most American's daily driving habits, and using the existing fuel infrastructure completely removes range anxiety from the equation.
This is a big one for me. If I could get an electric or even a PHEV Toyota Tacoma I'd probably have bought it already. As it stands they're just now getting into hybrids (besides the prius).
 

Ssaygmo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sage
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
45
Reaction score
54
Location
Ca
First Name
Sage
Vehicles
Volt
This is a big one for me. If I could get an electric or even a PHEV Toyota Tacoma I'd probably have bought it already. As it stands they're just now getting into hybrids (besides the prius).
Right? The sad thing is, chevy has the great Volt drivetrain (I've owned gen 1 and gen 2 volt, the gen 2 is great) which would make a perfect powertrain for the Colorado and then they would have the only small phev pickup in the world. One benefit I've long held as well that they don't take advantage of, you can separate the drive wheels- let the gas run the rear end through a transmission and solid differential, for articulation off-road and reliability putting the power down, and forego the transfer case but instead put 100hp electric on the front differential. The current 8-10 speed automatics have plenty of ratios to have 1st be a granny crawl gear, and the electric torque can take care of the front wheels.

Toyota has the rav4 Phev as well, which, while it wouldn't directly translate into the tacoma due to transverse layout, could surely be re-engineered as above into a full longitudinal layout tacoma.
 

ja_kub_sz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
45
Reaction score
45
Location
Central Illinois
Vehicles
2020 Land Rover Discovery
How quickly GM's 400 mile range ended up 350+ and so went my interest.

I do like the Hummer though, it looks surely capable and I think GM with the Bolt really set the bar for EV efficiency until Tesla ventured in to the 400 mile plus range with the Model S.

The Hummer however had a bunch of really compelling features that had me seriously considering it (am still considering if only slightly).

Pros:
Size (larger then R1T)
Crab Mode (seems cool)
All wheel turning (my 2nd favorite)
Super Cruise (#1 now this still makes me want it)
Better ground clearance (why not)
Unreal Graphics Engine UI (very cool)
Retractable rear glass (Rivian take note)
Multifunction Tailgate
GM service network (kinda a big deal IMO)
Frunk (like the skid load access)
Has a center console (Rivian should have a option for with or without)

Cons:
GM interior (not impressed at all)
112k price (not with that interior)
NOT 400 mile range (sorry GM)
Preorder Nonsense ($100 gets you ensuing dealer harassment, PASS)
Looks aren't that great (and people complain about Rivian headlights?)
14 speaker stereo (112k? Not good enough, Rivian take note)
80k model is very unimpressive
28" wading depth (only 28"? Hah!)
No built in roof rack/bed rail connection points (Rivian you nailed that one)
Driving dynamics (after all it is a Hummer)

I honestly was so put off by the whole "it'll have 400+ miles range" that when the said 350+ miles for the First Edition I was already tuning out. But again the interior is abysmal for a 112k vehicle. Other then having those nice toggle switches on the bottom of the main screen (only if Rivian would do the same) I was too perplex by the weird V shaped center driver screen while watching the unveiling (what's the deal?). It does seem extremely capable though, but more of a expensive Jeep/Bronco alternative, and I mean like double the price expensive rather then a more upscale and conveniently capable electric adventure vehicle.

And another thing I can't seem to imagine is what kinda of GM dealer price mark-up shenanigans are going to take place when these Hummer's actually hit dealer lots.

I just watched an Rivian R1T compilation video on YouTube and am happy with my R1T Preorder decision.

Now let's just see our online configurator already!
 
Last edited:

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
510
Reaction score
528
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
This is a big one for me. If I could get an electric or even a PHEV Toyota Tacoma I'd probably have bought it already. As it stands they're just now getting into hybrids (besides the prius).
Much of Toyotas line-up has had a hybrid option for quite some time (currently Camry, Corolla, Avalon, RAV4, Highlander, and of course the Prius). All of these are of the "self charging" variety (their Lexus division coined that term when posturing that plugging in was too much hassle) except the Prius can be had as a Plug In in the Prime version .
Plug-in hybrids have been limited to the Prius (two iterations) and more recently the RAV 4 Prime.
The have also had two different RAV 4 BEVs as well.
 

RobBot

Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
23
Reaction score
37
Location
Texas
First Name
Rob
Vehicles
2007 Toyota Tacoma
Much of Toyotas line-up has had a hybrid option for quite some time (currently Camry, Corolla, Avalon, RAV4, Highlander, and of course the Prius). All of these are of the "self charging" variety (their Lexus division coined that term when posturing that plugging in was too much hassle) except the Prius can be had as a Plug In in the Prime version .
Plug-in hybrids have been limited to the Prius (two iterations) and more recently the RAV 4 Prime.
The have also had two different RAV 4 BEVs as well.
You're right. I really don't like driving sedans or crossovers though, which is why I specified the Tacoma. I also did specify BEV or PHEV, which they're just starting to do with the prime.

The first gen Rav4 BEV, they made ~1500 of and only in California. The second generation has a 100 mile range.

Rav4 Prime (The PHEV) is new for the 2021 model year.

My point was more than there's no electric truck/SUV by any major manufacturer. They've all been limited to sedans/crossovers.
 

JeremyMKE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
111
Location
Milwaukee, WI
First Name
Jeremy
Vehicles
E39 M5, Silverado SS, Toyota Sienna, 2001 Yamaha Scooter
It occurs to me that the Electric Hummer's real short term competition is the Raptor. Loaded Raptors have been selling at a premium markup.

Look at the config, where the Rivian is intended to go where a raptor or wrangler could go with the environment considered, the Raptor wants to do it at 80 mph with huge long travel suspension and true offroad tires. A "brodozer" as a friend of mine coined.

I am not throwing shade its just a different aesthetic. If you look at the hummer does it remind you of a stock tacoma or F150? Not me, its going after the high end raptor buyer.
 

Lmirafuente

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lionel
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
205
Location
California
First Name
Lionel
Vehicles
BMW740i, Trailblazer, Audi Cabriolet
If you listen to the news, GM needs an influx of revenue. IMHO, they appear to be desperate and also thinking they can win buyers based on 10+ year old thinking of “status”.

I think the world is changing. I also think that with the pandemic more frugal decisions are being considered, and what is important to people will start to contribute to decisions on whether to buy a Rivian or not. Yes there is a market for more well-off individuals to buy whatever is out there regardless of price.

However, I think RJ and Rivian the company itself, is more about helping people, the climate, and more. They donated the batteries of prototypes to Puerto Rico...remember that? They built the Rivian with the secondary market of the vehicle in mind. Talking to RJ back at the Overland West in 2019, one truck can support five home for the secondary use of the batteries. A plug and play approach, per RJ.

The cost of building an EV is significantly less than and ICE vehicle, so the margins are there.

It would make more sense to sell Rivian’s at volume to the masses as quickly as possible for long-term health of Rivian’s future, the climate, while building an awesome brand and following. Rivian needs customers to sell for them and increasing the price based on a competitor will only tell me that they don’t have a long term plan or confidence in their product. The question becomes, can they get to profitability with volume of sales built on the wealthy population that does not care about price, or the masses?

My belief is that they know the value of Rivian and the potential....we shall soon see! And I am very optimistic about their future.

Great discussion!
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
157
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
It occurs to me that the Electric Hummer's real short term competition is the Raptor. Loaded Raptors have been selling at a premium markup.

Look at the config, where the Rivian is intended to go where a raptor or wrangler could go with the environment considered, the Raptor wants to do it at 80 mph with huge long travel suspension and true offroad tires. A "brodozer" as a friend of mine coined.

I am not throwing shade its just a different aesthetic. If you look at the hummer does it remind you of a stock tacoma or F150? Not me, its going after the high end raptor buyer.
I agree, I think the market for the Hummer is the lifted truck and rock crawling crowd, more so than Rivian. There is no doubt GM will be building other lower end electric trucks in the future at lower prices. The range of the Hummer is affected by the fact that it is bigger and heavier than the Rivian, and those large off road tires are much higher friction, not set up for optimum EV range.

GM is going all out on EVs though, they will have three EV factories within the next few years, that is in addition to the brand new battery plant in Lordstown.

I did put down the $100 on the Hummer, but it is not likely I will get one in the end. And even though the Cyber Truck is cheaper than the Rivian, I have no interest in that fugly thing.
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
157
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
Just for reference, the Escalade has 19 speakers and has an optional 36 speaker system.
This is such a don't care for me that I cannot tell you how many speakers are in any of my vehicles.
 

JeremyMKE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
111
Location
Milwaukee, WI
First Name
Jeremy
Vehicles
E39 M5, Silverado SS, Toyota Sienna, 2001 Yamaha Scooter
And even though the Cyber Truck is cheaper than the Rivian, I have no interest in that fugly thing.

The Cybertruck isnt for me either but I LOVE the audacity of it. I would love to own one because its fun.

But where am I going to park it? I have a three car garage and I am asking that question....

The Hummer is more reasonable and its not that I dont like a brutish vehicle. Its just not really me everyday.
 

Kickaha

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jon
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
47
Reaction score
55
Location
Seattle
First Name
Jon
Vehicles
2016 Tesla Model X
I have posted this opinion in another thread but the existing vehicle companies (GM, Ford to a lesser degree but still, etc) are so far behind Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Nio, Polestar, hell, even Nissan that they can only take the approach of slapping an electric motor in an ICE vehicle body as a stop gap measure while they develop a new vehicle. Only Ford has even taken a half-step with the new Mustang and I dont even consider that a "new" vehicle.

The traditional automakers STILL have not woken up to the fact that an EV is a DIFFERENT proposition. The purchase experience, the driving experience, features of the vehicle, sales and service experience - they are all DIFFERENT. You cannot take a business model that has worked for 120 years (because it was the only game in town) and expect it to continue to work when the transportation paradigm has changed.

Tesla changed the game and Rivian is capitalizing on it. Ford got the message early and while they are making changes faster than any other ICE maker, they are not adapting fast enough to keep up with the start-ups.

While I HATE the Cybertruck design (I do have one on pre-order as well as an R1T), Tesla has such a technology edge that only Rivian stands a chance of keeping up. What Rivian has is a clear position and partnerships with distruptive businesses (Amazon).

GM has realized they are so far behind they have no choice but to slap an electric motor in a Hummer while they work on the really cool features to be delivered in 3 years. The features of Edition 1 are very boring - its a Hummer with a battery. Yawn. Its not a new vehicle, new experience. Will it be successful? Probably because they are marketing to the masses that dont really understand EVs. They will settle for an ICE body with an electric motor becuse they dont (yet) realize what an EV experience can be. Its a shame really, GM could have kept the Hummer name and done a clean-sheet design that would have been great if they threw out 100 years of vehicle dogma. But, this Hummer is over-priced and under-featured.

They are rushing to market to say they were "first" with an electric truck. It is a truism that "First is best, second is good and best is okay." BUT - How much testing has been done? What is the reliability like? What technology is used in the battery pack? Tesla and Rivian have spent a DECADE on these systems. GM can only have spent a few months (at best). Want to spend more than $100K on a test-bed product? Not even pre-alpha. No thanks.

I would hope that Rivian and Tesla take a very close look at the Hummer for patent infringement.

Sorry to rant - putting my soapbox away now.
 

Advertisement












 


Advertisement


Top