Hummer Copies Rivian: No Wonder GM & Rivian Couldn't Reach a Deal

Coast2Coast

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
393
Reaction score
457
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca./Odawara, Jpn
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
1981 Volvo wagon; 2006 Tacoma SR5; 2009 Toyota Prius
GM hasn't yet launched its new BEV Hummers, but details are leaking. Apparently there will be two vehicles, a short-bed truck and shorter length SUV, and different battery pack sizes. GM's new Ultimuum battery packs, developed in conjunction with LG Chem, will provide power. A lot of details are surprisingly similar to what we're expecting from Rivian.

No wonder GM and Rivian couldn't reach a deal. The only "real" difference is that GM explicitly says their Hummers are body-on-frame vehicles and they don't use a skateboard architecture. GM may be playing word games here. In an early interview, RJ talks about Rivian's hard mounted, body-on-frame approach as opposed to the more common soft mounted, body-on-frame approach used by auto OEMs. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/rivian-rj-scaringe-interview/

When talks fell through, it was reported GM didn't want Rivian to work with other OEMs. GM wanted exclusivity.

One of Rivian's advantages as a start-up is the freedom to do what it wants, and not be tied to legacy thinking and systems. (In the article below, GM says their body on frame approach allows them to mix components and systems with their ICE vehicles.) The caveat is, can you find investors to support your clean-sheet approach? And, resoundedly, the answer is yes, to the tune of over $5 billion raised in just the last two years by Rivian.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...mer-ev-sut-suv-price-specs-review-photos-info





Advertisement

 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
304
Reaction score
220
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
Not sure why you are calling this a "copy" of Rivian, it is actually just an electric replacement/upgrade to the H3/H3T from the last decade. H3T is a shortbed pickup like the Rvian and the H3 is a similar sized SUV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H3

GM has actually been leading the way in electric vehicles, going back to the EV 1 and S10 EV truck in the 1990s. I rode in an EV 1 long ago, and have owned a Volt, and now a Bolt, both these vehicles have been very reliable and I trust GM's battery technology.
 
OP
Coast2Coast

Coast2Coast

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
393
Reaction score
457
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca./Odawara, Jpn
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
1981 Volvo wagon; 2006 Tacoma SR5; 2009 Toyota Prius
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
azbill, the "copy" part was meant tongue in cheek, but the similarities in body sizes, model choices and body on frame architectures are surprising and, I agree with you, GM got there first. But Rivian chose a short bed pickup and shorter length SUV as its first vehicles well before GM announced it was reviving the Hummer brand. GM's decision to build BEV Hummers strikingly similar to Rivian's already announced R1T and R1S is the "copy" part.

On that note, if you read the Green Car Reports piece, over 60% of persons interviewed were either neutral or against using Hummer as a BEV brand. As you say, GM has a long history with electric vehicles, and Hummer's reputation is not at all associated with energy efficiency or alternative energy.
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
304
Reaction score
220
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
azbill, the "copy" part was meant tongue in cheek, but the similarities in body sizes, model choices and body on frame architectures are surprising and, I agree with you, GM got there first. But Rivian chose a short bed pickup and shorter length SUV as its first vehicles well before GM announced it was reviving the Hummer brand. GM's decision to build BEV Hummers strikingly similar to Rivian's already announced R1T and R1S is the "copy" part.

On that note, if you read the Green Car Reports piece, over 60% of persons interviewed were either neutral or against using Hummer as a BEV brand. As you say, GM has a long history with electric vehicles, and Hummer's reputation is not at all associated with energy efficiency or alternative energy.
I always wanted to have an H1, the original diesel, they are really cool vehicles. I could care less about efficiency, it would not be a daily driver anyway. For me, the Hummer EV is my second choice after the Rivian.
 

bigdogrod

Active Member
First Name
rod
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
30
Reaction score
15
Location
maryland
First Name
rod
Vehicles
honda ridgeline, pre order for cybertruck and r1t
hahahah gm took the h3t and made it electric with some new tricks.... and it starts at 80k... no thanks
 

gombater

Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
13
Reaction score
23
Location
Illinois
First Name
Rick
Vehicles
F150
ok $112k for the top level in late 2021, everything else 2022-2024.... think I'll pass. Down to Rivian or buy a hybrid Ford and wait for the electric F150 to release....
 

nfrank

Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
21
Reaction score
26
Location
Santa Clara, CA
First Name
Nathan
Vehicles
F-150
This is bad news. The Cybertruck put pressure on Rivian to lower their price, but at over $100k and only 350 mile range, Rivian can easily argue to keep prices high. That and the $70k version won’t be delivered for almost 4 years.
 

Mjhirsch78

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
115
Reaction score
166
Location
Washington
First Name
Matt
Vehicles
Honda Odyssey will become an R1T
Occupation
Teacher
R.J. seems like a guy who only speaks publicly when he has made a solid decision. His company mirrors that as evidenced by the long wait for the configurations. He said $69k for 135 kWh. It would be out of character and off-brand to change because of something like this. It won’t pressure prices lower, but it doesn’t feel right to be pressured up here.
 

nfrank

Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
21
Reaction score
26
Location
Santa Clara, CA
First Name
Nathan
Vehicles
F-150
R.J. seems like a guy who only speaks publicly when he has made a solid decision. His company mirrors that as evidenced by the long wait for the configurations. He said $69k for 135 kWh. It would be out of character and off-brand to change because of something like this. It won’t pressure prices lower, but it doesn’t feel right to be pressured up here.
Do you think that $69k number is before or after federal rebate?
 
OP
Coast2Coast

Coast2Coast

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
393
Reaction score
457
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca./Odawara, Jpn
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
1981 Volvo wagon; 2006 Tacoma SR5; 2009 Toyota Prius
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
GM has gotten the pricing wrong, I believe, thinking somehow that the Hummer brand has cache and high-end appeal. And indeed it may have cache, but not as a luxury brand. With Rivian and CT priced lower, I don't think GM will sell many Hummers.

The $69K price RJ quoted at the SF/Mill Valley event was for a 135kW model with an electromatic roof, before the federal credit. The quote came after the CT was announced and speculation ran that RJ and Rivian were feeling some Tesla heat. We don't really know why RJ lowered prices. It could be any number of factors, such as lower battery costs, better deals with suppliers, the effects of the Amazon investment, and competition with the CT and others, or a combination of factors.
 
Last edited:

R1Simon

Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
37
Reaction score
63
Location
California
Vehicles
2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
This is bad news. The Cybertruck put pressure on Rivian to lower their price, but at over $100k and only 350 mile range, Rivian can easily argue to keep prices high. That and the $70k version won’t be delivered for almost 4 years.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the reveal. RJ has to be feeling pretty good right now.
 

Ssaygmo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sage
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
60
Reaction score
73
Location
Ca
First Name
Sage
Vehicles
Volt
I was aghast after watching the reveal. Going in, I was planning on ordering the Hummer ev just due to the $100 cost. But then the reveal, and my resultant thoughts...

1. Styling is like an h3 and avalanche had a baby, and then someone did a wheelchair conversion on it (the belly hangs down a LOT for the battery "skateboard" pan. Rivian hides this very well, cybertruck decently well, Hummer doesn't hide it at all.

2. Pricing: absurd. $80k for the cheapest one?! Thats $10k more than the top of the line cybertruck? $110k for the first edition? What is this, a rolls Royce? Its got rubber floors for gosh sakes.

3. Website a mess during preorder window. I tried for 30 minutes and finally got through to the point of putting in my credit card info, decided not to bother.

If Jeep sold a plugin hybrid 4xe gladiator that I could take delivery on this year, I would jump at that. Nearly 500lbft of torque and solid axles should give it much better articulation off-road than any of the new full electric trucks.

I think companies are throwing out the pHev's, where they could offer a great way to get more people with range anxiety into electric vehicles. 30-40 miles is plenty of range for most American's daily driving habits, and using the existing fuel infrastructure completely removes range anxiety from the equation.
As it is, I'll be patiently waiting the cybertruck and Rivian shipping dates next year, along with everyone else here.
 

Ssaygmo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sage
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
60
Reaction score
73
Location
Ca
First Name
Sage
Vehicles
Volt
GM has gotten the pricing wrong, I believe, thinking somehow that the Hummer brand has cache and high-end appeal. And indeed it may have cache, but not as a luxury brand. With Rivian and CT priced lower, I don't GM will sell many Hummers.

The $69K price RJ quoted at the SF/Mill Valley event was for a 135kW model with an electromatic roof, before the federal credit. The quote came after the CT was announced and speculation ran that RJ and Rivian were feeling some Tesla heat. We don't really know why RJ lowered prices. It could be any number of factors, such as lower battery costs, better deals with suppliers, the effects of the Amazon investment, and competition with the CT and others, or a combination of factors.
Agree so much. All styling aside, from a purely monetary to performance perspective, the Rivian has them beat if pricing comes in where we expect.

4 motor 135kwh (300 mile?) Rivian vs 2 motor maybe 105kwh? 250mile hummer.

And all the premium features get removed for that $80k. No removable glass roof, no advanced electronics or cameras or performance or fast charging. Of course, given that its 3-4 years out... a lot can change in that time. We've gone from ZERO electric trucks in existence to 6-8 pending in 2 years, and thats pretty exciting.
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top