How to Improve a Rivian R1S’s Elevation Sound System With Simple EQ Changes (Equipment Measured Tests & Results)

[Bullwinkle]

@ivinio21 Thanks for doing this and sharing photos. I wondered whether swapping to Meridian hardware would improve anything. You confirmed that the benefits are limited, which leads me to believe the difference between Elevation and Meridian has more to do with DSP and/or crossover networks than the physical drivers.

Some folks said their Elevation system actually comprised Meridian speakers, which could explain why swapping made no difference. It looks like yours were different, though. Interesting that you had the same result.

Did you happen to look at what the speakers connected to? If so, did it look like each pair of speakers on a door (the mid-range woofer near the floor and the sweater near the sideview mirror) were powered by a single amplifier or separate amplifiers?

This will tell us a lot about whether the system is fully active or not and whether the crossovers are digital or not. See notes below.



I'm not sure if you're saying that the Rivian has a digital crossover, but unless each speaker has its own amplifier, I'm not certain it can.

A digital crossover splits the signal 2 or 3 ways in the digital domain (bits and bytes). Each split digital signal requires a DAC to convert it to a low-voltage analog signal and then a corresponding amplifier to bring it up to playback level to drive a speaker (woofer, tweeter, etc). Each speaker has its own amplifier. This is called a fully active system.

A fully active signal chain looks something like this:

Digital source (full bandwidth) >> Digital crossover (splits signal into 2/3 bandwidth ranges at crossover points to feed each speaker) >> DAC (converts digital to analog as a low voltage-modulated signal) >> Amplifier (brings low voltage signal up to playback power levels) >> Speaker (woofer, tweeter)

Compare that to a typical passive signal chain (at least for home audio):

Digital source (full bandwidth) >> DAC (full bandwidth) >> Amplifier (full bandwidth) >> Crossover (split bandwidth) >> Speaker (woofer, tweeter)

Fully active architectures are much more expensive than passive ones because each speaker needs its own DAC and amplifier. That's why we see very few fully active playback systems outside of nearfield studio monitors.

The advantages of a fully active system are that the crossover points and time/phase alignment between speakers can be done digitally, i.e., more flexibly and more precisely based on the exact performance envelopes of each driver using computer modeling.

Analog crossover network design is where many speaker manufacturers make their mark because it's hard to do well. Digital crossovers solve a lot of crossover design issues but require a different—more expensive—signal chain.

Hybrid systems are possible, where some channels share an amplifier, but these are also more expensive than a standard passive architecture.

If Rivian chose a fully active system architecture, then it has digital crossovers that can be adjusted and—in the case of the Elevation system—fixed.

However, based on what I've seen so far, it doesn't look fully active to me. If it's passive, then the crossovers are analog and we're stuck with their limitations unless we replace the system all the way back to the source.

On a separate note, I plan to measure my R1S Elevation system post-Atmos update this weekend and report back.

Sorry for the long reply, but I would add that I agree that atmos is much more appropriate for Movies--they are encoded and mastered for theater processors that can properly decode and distribute the sound.

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[Bullwinkle]

I can argue on that. A digital crossover can pass through sound lower than 100Hz, depending on how it’s configured. The crossover point is adjustable, so you can set it to pass frequencies lower than 100Hz, such as 80Hz which most of the 6x9 woofer set to or even lower hz if that satisfies your fancy.

I certainly agree--if the Rivian crossover is adjustable--aftermarket units are, but most OEM units probably are not.

 

[superfluid]

I guess I should be more clear. I know you know all this, but some may not and a few of them may be interested. This will be TLDR for most. There are really 2 broad types of crossovers:

Passive Crossovers are in the signal path after amplification at the speaker wire level. These are by far the most commonly used crossovers in both home speakers and car audio. There is a real art to designing these in expensive/sophisticated home audio speakers.

The simplest 6db/octave high-pass (lets the highs through) filter is a capacitor. The simplest low-pass filter is a coil. Just a coil on the mid/bass driver and a capacitor on the tweeter will allow a lot of overlap in sound and will let a lot of bass make its way to the tweeter and limit power handling ability. These simple crossovers have phase (timing) advantages, but better speakers usually use more elaborate designs--especially on the tweeter. Passive crossovers work well in the 500hz to 5000hz range. In subwoofer frequencies they require really big coils and are not a great idea.

Active Crossovers do their job before amplification and are most common in home and car subwoofers. As you have mentioned before, our ears can't localize low frequency sound, so we can use a single subwoofer. So a common car amp may have 5 channels, one mono amp for the subwoofer, a stereo amp pair for the front left and right woofer and tweeter (which usually use a passive crossover between them), and a stereo amp pair for the rear woofers and tweeters. The electronic crossover will send bass below 100ish hz to the mono woofer amp and above 100hz to the two stereo amps. The hidden advantage is that bass is what takes the power, so in this design we only need one really big mono amp. The stereo amps can be smaller because the bass burden is gone--this has audible benefits for the front and rear stereo speaker pairs since they can concentrate on the frequencies they are suited for. Sometimes there is an active crossover between the mid bass driver and tweeter in the stereo pairs, but this is expensive and pretty uncommon.

The holy grail is crossing over in the digital domain and also applying individual phase and equalization dsp to each amp. The holy, holy grail is to have a separate amp for every subwoofer, mid bass driver and tweeter--this is silly expensive because it requires an amp for each speaker. Although this is exactly how Meridian designs their home speakers--so if anybody was going to try this in a car, I guess it would be Meridian--still I doubt Rivian is using a digital crossover--maybe for the sub. Dang, a lot of words to finally answer your question!

My guess is there is a 5 channel amp with one channel handling below 100hz and the other 4 channels handling above 100hz. I would also say that the best way to improve bass would be to give the subwoofer a proper enclosure.

I love that somebody with knowledge and experience is doing this research. THANK YOU!

This is one of the clearest explanations of the differences between passive and active crossover topologies I’ve read. Really well done.

Audio enthusiasts, I encourage you to read @Bullwinkle ‘s post to help you understand how your Rivian audio system is most likely designed, why it might have the limitations/issues that it does, and what software updates can and can’t do to fix them.

 

[Bullwinkle]

This is one of the clearest explanations of the differences between passive and active crossover topologies I’ve read. Really well done.

Audio enthusiasts, I encourage you to read @Bullwinkle ‘s post to help you understand how your Rivian audio system is most likely designed, why it might have the limitations/issues that it does, and what software updates can and can’t do to fix them.

Blushing…especially coming from you

 

[Ksarat9]

Blushing…especially coming from you

Rivian would be wise to fire the imbecile they’ve got running this department and pay you two a few million each to fix this shit. For $80-$100k, I should be able to sit my ass in the car and enjoy an amazing sound system without having to learn about all of this. It’s completely unacceptable in my opinion.

 

[Glembi2]

Thank you @superfluid and @Bullwinkle for your continued dedication to explaining how sound and sound systems work!

With respect to the active systems having separate amps per speaker, are the amps always at the speakers? Or are they generally combined in a larger, multi channel amp?

 

[Bullwinkle]

Thank you @superfluid and @Bullwinkle for your continued dedication to explaining how sound and sound systems work!

With respect to the active systems having separate amps per speaker, are the amps always at the speakers? Or are they generally combined in a larger, multi channel amp?

The amps are usually not located at the speaker. Generally they are tucked somewhere--under a seat, in the trunk, or in the back in a compartment. Sometimes all amps and even crossover and any DSP circuitry are in a single chassis, sometimes they are separate chassis and may even be in different locations around the vehicle.

 

[Yossarian]

Rivian would be wise to fire the imbecile they’ve got running this department and pay you two a few million each to fix this shit. For $80-$100k, I should be able to sit my ass in the car and enjoy an amazing sound system without having to learn about all of this. It’s completely unacceptable in my opinion.

Second this!

The Rivian audio system is disappointingly mediocre, even after making the adjustments suggested by these knowledgeable guys. My guess is that everything about the system is very middle of the road in terms of quality, from the drivers to the amplifiers and any digital components in between. If that's the case, the only cure is to replace the entire system.

While I'd like to have a decent audio in my Rivian, in the end, it's really not something that's all that important. My workaround is to mostly forgo music, and instead listen to podcasts and audio books. When if comes to music, I value natural sound, something that is difficult to achieve in the mobile audio setting of a car or truck.

A digression: Do we really need things like surround and Atmos in our vehicles? Though I have a mutli-channel (5.1) system in my home for movies, I listen to music pretty much exclusively in stereophonic mode. I'll also confess to listening to a lot of jazz and some classical, much of it via analog (LP) rather than digital and as noted, in stereo.

More digression. I've had some outstanding speakers over the years, including the Dahlquist DQ-10 (that I really regret selling), Metronome Pyramids (OK, but need a subwoofer and its electrostatic tweeters could sound harsh), and the Ohm Walsh (really good fidelity but an incredible soundstage). I had a wealthy buddy who had a Carver setup that cost a fortune, but to my ears, was lacking in detal. There are others speakers I've heard and lusted over, notably the early Kef models that used physical driver distancing (as did both both the Dahlquists & Metronomes), to try to get all the frequencies to arrive simultaneously at your ears. None of these kinds of loudspeakers would work in a car, but that level of sophistication isn't needed in a mobile setting, IMO.

Sorry for the above digressions, but one last thought to complete that tangential journey. I bought a pair of small, bi-amped and pretty inexpensive JBL 3 Series bookshelf speakers to use with my desktop, mostly for audio editing, but also for listening while doing some computer work Paired with my SB audio card, they produce remarkable sound. Of course, bass is lacking with only a 5" mid/woofer, but the overall detail is excellent and the sound very natural. JBL claims to have incorporated many of the features of their M2 Master Reference Monitor (nearly $30k for a pair) into the 3 Series (my 305's were less than $280 for a pair.) Is there any reason that Rivian couldn't have worked with a company like JBL to get something similar to the 3 Series into the R1?

 

[RadDad]

I feel like my sound keeps getting worse, both Spotify and Apple Atmos. Just terrible

 

[superfluid]

Update: I completed measurements of my Gen 1 R1S Elevation after the 2024.27.01 update. Analysis is underway.

Preliminary result: Rivian made significant improvements to the sound system with this update, including fixing the Elevation system's massive frequency response issue. Atmos sounds surprisingly good, IMO, but can be hit or miss depending on the specific mix.

Full breakdown and EQ recommendations coming soon.

 

[superfluid]

Gen 1 R1S Elevation 2024.27.01 sound system analysis and recommendations posted.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...date-2024-27-01-with-simple-eq-changes.32180/

 

[superfluid]

Do we really need things like surround and Atmos in our vehicles? Though I have a mutli-channel (5.1) system in my home for movies, I listen to music pretty much exclusively in stereophonic mode.

I asked myself the same thing when I read the 2024.27.01 release notes: Do we need immersive audio in a car? Can't Rivian do more important things with that processing power? I have a 5.2.4 immersive system at home and rarely listen to music in Atmos; it just doesn't sound that much better than stereo to make searching for Atmos mixes of the music I like worth it.

After listening to several Atmos tracks in my R1S, I've come around to its value. I'm surprised by how much it can improve the listening experience.

Here's what I think is going on, especially for people in our situation, i.e., people with properly set up home systems.

Our home systems—whether they're 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, or plus—render stereophonic mixes more or less correctly because we sit between the left and right speakers. Left and right channel information arrive at our heads at the correct volume at the correct time. As you know, that's how stereo's horizontal spatial information creates a phantom center, stereo imaging, sound staging, etc. In a home system, stereo music has spatial width and depth. When we playback Atmos tracks at home, the only additional information we get is height and surround, which aren't so important to music as it is to movies where sound objects are pegged to the positions of objects on the screen as they move around us in 3D space. Music doesn't tend to benefit from instruments moving around us in 3D space, at least imo. Add on the fact that my favorite music is rarely mixed in Atmos and I have little reason to listen to Atmos music at home.

A car is a different thing. We don't get a correct stereo experience in a car. Left and right information do not reach our ears at the correct volume or correct time because we essentially sit on top of the left speaker. We get almost no horizontal or depth spatial information (aside from panning effects) from a stereo track in a car. You can test this by playing a stereo track and moving your head over the center console—it should sound way more coherent than when your head was in the driver's position. Cars so rarely (ever?) render a coherent stereo image that we don't expect them to. I can't imagine being able to get a holographic image in a car for the driver without creating unpleasant side effects, like screwing with every passenger's equilibrium. That suggests the performance floor—and thus our expectation—for stereo music in our vehicles is far lower than in our homes.

Imo, Atmos in our vehicles changes that. To my ears, Atmos renders a perceivable amount of coherent spatial information in the vehicle by utilizing many more sound sources/speakers. I'm still increasing my understanding of how our brains process immersive sound, but I believe localization errors are harder to pinpoint in an immersive sound field than a stereo one because the errors are spread out over or covered up by more dimensions.* That helps immersive mixes sound more spatially coherent. Moreover, Atmos mixes contain separate sound objects that the Atmos renderer tells where to play in the speaker system. The renderer knows the right volume and time each speaker should play a sound to create a cohesive image, unlike what upmixing or a matrix amplifier does. Atmos in a car sounds closer to what we think stereo music should sound like—spatially coherent—but with the added bonus of ambisonics from overhead speakers. Since our experience with and expectations of correct imaging in a car are so low, the Atmos update sounds glorious to many.

Thus, reactions to the update like this one:

At least that's my theory =)

*Side note: I got stereo imaging in my home system so sharp by adjusting toe-in that I felt like I was wearing headphones. I had to back it off to get more reflected, delayed sound to open up the sound stage.

 

[FrackUrDirtyOil]

Thank you so much for this post. Just yesterday I picked up the new 2025 R1S with the premium audio option. The initial audio quality on the ride home without preset EQ options was shockingly horrible. I briefly had a Launch Edition 2023 R1S the Meridian Audio which was really superb from day one. The service rep claimed the premium audio was basically the same as Meridian but I immediately could tell otherwise. All the speakers sounded very stiff and muddy. Hoping the speakers just need breaking in so I'll be playing it often and loud in the next few days. Otherwise hoping OTA upgrade of the EQ or other reprogramming will improve the system with time. In the meantime I tried your recommended settings but I'm not sure if this applies to the 2025 premium audio system. Your post is very informative nonetheless so thank you very much.

 

[superfluid]

Thank you so much for this post. Just yesterday I picked up the new 2025 R1S with the premium audio option. The initial audio quality on the ride home without preset EQ options was shockingly horrible. I briefly had a Launch Edition 2023 R1S the Meridian Audio which was really superb from day one. The service rep claimed the premium audio was basically the same as Meridian but I immediately could tell otherwise. All the speakers sounded very stiff and muddy. Hoping the speakers just need breaking in so I'll be playing it often and loud in the next few days. Otherwise hoping OTA upgrade of the EQ or other reprogramming will improve the system with time. In the meantime I tried your recommended settings but I'm not sure if this applies to the 2025 premium audio system. Your post is very informative nonetheless so thank you very much.

I'm glad.

Based on what others have said about the Gen 2 Premium system's performance, it's unlikely that my Gen 1 Elevation recommendations will help Gen 2 Premium.

I'm measuring @skyote 's Gen 1 Meridian this weekend and will do Gen 2 Premium next.

 

[superfluid]

Gen 1 R1S Meridian measurements and recommendations posted: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...024-27-01-35-00-with-simple-eq-changes.33811/

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