How do you charge a Rivian R1T or R1S EV? Soon, easily- MT

electrictaco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
134
Reaction score
260
Location
California
Vehicles
Toyota Tacoma
Why? Based on what?
I would also agree that based on the advertised "140 miles in 20 mins" that this is the area of the curve that you see the highest rate of charge and the curve isn't flat.

If it was a flat curve, they would advertise a better number (i.e. 10-80% in 31.5 mins). I think they could still surprise us, but I think that 20 mins isn't a flat 180kW, but 200+kW to start and then dropping down to below 150kW.
Advertisement

 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,605
Reaction score
2,846
Location
Seattle
First Name
Brice
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
I would also agree that based on the advertised "140 miles in 20 mins" that this is the area of the curve that you see the highest rate of charge and the curve isn't flat.

If it was a flat curve, they would advertise a better number (i.e. 10-80% in 31.5 mins). I think they could still surprise us, but I think that 20 mins isn't a flat 180kW, but 200+kW to start and then dropping down to below 150kW.
I wasn't thinking that either, but with MT saying it starts out with a 190kw peak, it sounds fairly flat. Either way, personally I'll be pretty disappointed if this thing isn't nearly flat to start, with moving the curve up with the increased voltages. If you're talking about 190kw for 140 miles that's ~45% of the battery. If it drops down from there much then we're talking about a *really* poor curve compared to other recent EVs given the size of the battery.
 

electrictaco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
134
Reaction score
260
Location
California
Vehicles
Toyota Tacoma
I wasn't thinking that either, but with MT saying it starts out with a 190kw peak, it sounds fairly flat. Either way, personally I'll be pretty disappointed if this thing isn't nearly flat to start, with moving the curve up with the increased voltages. If you're talking about 190kw for 140 miles that's ~45% of the battery. If it drops down from there much then we're talking about a *really* poor curve compared to other recent EVs given the size of the battery.
Yeah, to be honest, I don't really trust a lot of the details coming from MotorTrend. They seem to have a mix of repeated facts that were definitely cleared by Rivian PR and then some random assumptions or discoveries that they made along the way (i.e. unannounced 2WD conserve mode). I wouldn't be surprised if the Rivians ship with a higher rate than 190kW peak, but as of yet nothing has been confirmed by Rivian.
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,605
Reaction score
2,846
Location
Seattle
First Name
Brice
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
Yeah, to be honest, I don't really trust a lot of the details coming from MotorTrend. They seem to have a mix of repeated facts that were definitely cleared by Rivian PR and then some random assumptions or discoveries that they made along the way (i.e. unannounced 2WD conserve mode). I wouldn't be surprised if the Rivians ship with a higher rate than 190kW peak, but as of yet nothing has been confirmed by Rivian.
I'm with you. Any my bias is showing here. I've been dubious of this 800v switch, so it being "TBD" has me on edge.
 

Kmann1994

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kevan
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
118
Reaction score
592
Location
Phoenix, AZ
First Name
Kevan
Vehicles
Model 3 Performance
Occupation
Head of Product
I can tell this thread is quickly going to devolve into an in-the-weeds hardcore EV-geek discussion about charge rate graphs, battery and cable temperatures, etc. So before I bow out of that I just want to say:

190kw is more than enough to start and I’m very happy with this reveal. The promise of over 200 and eventually 300 eventually is nice to have too in the back of my mind.

The key takeaway is that Motor Trend continually said that charging was not an issue or pain point when driving the car, so you shouldn’t be worried about it either.

I own a Model 3 now and most of the Superchargers I’ve ever charged at in AZ are ”only” 150kwh, and not once have I thought that was insufficient. I love the opportunity to charge on Tesla’s 250kwh units for sure but I’m not having a terrible experience or anything on 150kwh.

Food for thought.
 

Lobstahz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
45
Reaction score
106
Location
Boston, MA
Vehicles
R1S on Order, Tesla Model 3, Audi A4
190kWh is not too surprising, this is pretty close to the max you're going to get from an EA charger anyways. They max out at 350kWh and have limits of 920v and 500A. So a Rivian with its ~400v battery pack will be Amp limited on the charger at 500A and effectively (400*500) 200kWh which is close enough to their stated 190kWh.

Once they "finish implementing" or whatever is happening with the rumored 400v to 800v battery pack "dynamic reconfiguration" for changing that they're doing they'd be able to theoretically hit 350kWh (350k/800) at 437A. At which point 300 is a good deal away from 350, but to the other posters sentiment, at those speeds (which would be the best of a production car I believe) it really starts to become academic and for many will be "fast enough" to not be a nuisance.

EA Charging Station Source: https://library.e.abb.com/public/8c...0-RevB RevBABB_Infographic_Terra_HP_Gen 3.pdf
 

Rhidan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
348
Reaction score
893
Location
Denver
Vehicles
R1T
I love everyone digging into the potential charging curves, which I will happily read and act like I fully understand.

I thought this quote by Motor Trend was a big f statement from a legacy car outlet:
Charging during our 7,000-mile trek across the Trans-America Trail from the East Coast to the West Coast was such a non-event, even accounting for a few faulty public chargers, that we felt more "range anxiety," or the fear of not making it to our destination with the energy onboard for our support truck, a 702-hp Ram 1500 TRX.
Also, did you all miss the SOON they dropped in the headline?
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,605
Reaction score
2,846
Location
Seattle
First Name
Brice
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
I can tell this thread is quickly going to devolve into an in-the-weeds hardcore EV-geek discussion about charge rate graphs, battery and cable temperatures, etc. So before I bow out of that I just want to say:

190kw is more than enough to start and I’m very happy with this reveal. The promise of over 200 and eventually 300 eventually is nice to have too in the back of my mind.

The key takeaway is that Motor Trend continually said that charging was not an issue or pain point when driving the car, so you shouldn’t be worried about it either.

I own a Model 3 now and most of the Superchargers I’ve ever charged at in AZ are ”only” 150kwh, and not once have I thought that was insufficient. I love the opportunity to charge on Tesla’s 250kwh units for sure but I’m not having a terrible experience or anything on 150kwh.

Food for thought.
Yeah, sorry. Devolving to negativity wasn't the original intent of my response either.

190kw is fine for me *to start* too. I"d just love to know what to expect from this nebulous "future."

150kw for a M3 is less of an issue since the battery ~80 kWh. So it doesn't take long to get go 0 to 80% (for example), and it drops below 150 at ~50% anyway. If the R1T average about 175kw for that 0-80% curve that's about 32 minutes for 10-80% to get ~93 kW. At that point the shape of the curve matters quite a bit to me.
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,605
Reaction score
2,846
Location
Seattle
First Name
Brice
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
190kWh is not too surprising, this is pretty close to the max you're going to get from an EA charger anyways. They max out at 350kWh and have limits of 920v and 500A. So a Rivian with its ~400v battery pack will be Amp limited on the charger at 500A and effectively (400*500) 200kWh which is close enough to their stated 190kWh.

Once they "finish implementing" or whatever is happening with the rumored 400v to 800v battery pack "dynamic reconfiguration" for changing that they're doing they'd be able to theoretically hit 350kWh (350k/800) at 437A. At which point 300 is a good deal away from 350, but to the other posters sentiment, at those speeds (which would be the best of a production car I believe) it really starts to become academic and for many will be "fast enough" to not be a nuisance.

EA Charging Station Source: https://library.e.abb.com/public/8c15c3389eff4d7da307d2d18a1b0261/9AKK107991A8620-RevB RevBABB_Infographic_Terra_HP_Gen 3.pdf
Agreed. If it sits close to 175 or more below 80%, i'm totally fine with that even without peaks above 200kW. Would 300kW be nice? Yeah! Who doesn't want that 800v charging speed! I just don't want peak of 190kW + a poor charging curve with such a big ass battery pack. It's definitely a positive that MT seemed to get confirmation that they'll push to 200 and 300kW in the future. Just eager for what that may look like.
Also, did you all miss the SOON they dropped in the headline?
yes. It made me chuckle. :)
 

LordUlhtred

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
23
Reaction score
33
Location
Fairfax, VA
Vehicles
Model 3

timesinks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Messages
190
Reaction score
406
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
ID.4, FJ, Sprinter
In the MT article it states, "All Level 2 chargers we visited during our cross-country trek down the Trans-America Trail were free—even to non-Rivians."

Free chargers? I haven't come across many free chargers in California. How are there so many free chargers along the Trans America trail??
Do a search on plugshare: filter for J1772 only and turn off stations that require payment. I think you'll find there are a surprising number of free Level 2 chargers, including all over California. You'll need to zoom in to see them all.

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.17.48 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.14.38 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.15.17 AM.png
 

williescout

New Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern Cal
Vehicles
XC90, Ranger, Landcruiser
Do a search on plugshare: filter for J1772 only and turn off stations that require payment. I think you'll find there are a surprising number of free Level 2 chargers, including all over California. You'll need to zoom in to see them all.

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.17.48 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.14.38 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 11.15.17 AM.png
Thanks for that tip...plugshare...much better site than EA or ChargePoint.
 

timesinks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Messages
190
Reaction score
406
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
ID.4, FJ, Sprinter
Thanks for that tip...plugshare...much better site than EA or ChargePoint.
EA and ChargePoint are networks. Free power usually comes from business owners who want you to stop and stay for a while. Plugshare is a more comprehensive, network-agnostic database of EV plugs. There's much more out there than just EA and ChargePoint.
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
1,605
Reaction score
2,846
Location
Seattle
First Name
Brice
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
EA and ChargePoint are networks. Free power usually comes from business owners who want you to stop and stay for a while. Plugshare is a more comprehensive, network-agnostic database of EV plugs. There's much more out there than just EA and ChargePoint.
I was playing around with chargepoint's app last night, and they actually show a lot of chargers out of their network. I'd still (generally) refer to plughare, but I thought it was interesting. Their filtering still sucks. No way to easily separate out 24 kW and 350 kW DCFC.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top