Had my First Drive... very impressed, but will now almost certainly cancel my pre-order.

[Hopper]

I imagine that with a similar side are exposure to the wind and total weight being the variable, that the Rivian at 7000+ pounds would be less affected by the wind.

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[RivianNE]

About a month ago I got to see and drive the R1T for the first time, and was super impressed with the entire package. It is beautiful piece of technology and I am sure many people will make many happy memories with the vehicle. However, the experience helped cement my opinion that the R1T doesn't quite fit my needs/use case, for two reasons:

The first reason is the least significant, but perhaps the most surprising. As I said, I think the R1T is a wonderful piece of technology. But it didn't feel much like a machine – between the UI and the inherent nature of all EV's, its mechanical character felt hidden from me. It made me realize that EV's are perhaps destined to become disposable consumer products that people switch out every few years, like a new iPhone. People generally have very little emotional attachment to their *actual* phones, only to the content and apps on them. And I wonder if that is what it will be like in an EV world. Very different than how I feel about "Blubicon", my Jeep Rubicon 392, which is like a member of the family and will never be replaced.

The second reason is really the point for this post (to ask advice from current owners about snowy highway driving). I need a vehicle to comfortably and safely get me from NYC to the Adirondacks every weekend, which is a 240 mile 4-hour drive up I-87. Now, it seems like I-87 is frequently unplowed when I drive it (Fri night or Sat morning), and several stretches have high winds. The winter temp is often in the single digits or below. Over the past two years, I have had several butt-clenching moments when my vehicle started sliding at highway speeds. One time I got pushed sideways by the wind across two icy lanes, at 50 mph, and only just managed to catch it before hitting the curb. It's scary enough in an ICE SUV or the Jeep (with snow tires). The thought of such a slide in a 7000lb R1T (with more torque and less feedback) terrifies me. Surface streets don't scare me because the speeds are so manageable. But snowy/icy/windy highways... ugh.

So my question before I cancel the order is whether any of the Colorado owners have experience driving the R1T in terrible conditions on the highway? Does the extra weight/momentum help or hurt?

btw, if I do cancel, I would be happy to explore ways to pass on my pre-price-hike reservation to someone. Not sure if it is possible/allowed. But if so, it might save someone some money.

I agree mostly with everyone else.

As far as owning an EV, I currently own a Model 3 (since 2018) and I never kept a vehicle as long before. I am also planning to keep it at least for another 5 years. For two reasons, the car is so much fun to drive, especially on the Adirondack roads (more on that later) and my car is so much better now than when I bought it 4 years ago.

As far as driving during the winter. To start, let me say this: 1/ Colorado snow is different from the New England one (heavier) and 2/ I am a big believer on snow tires. Keeping that in mind, here is my take. As far as driving on the I-87, I can give you my perspective as I do a similar drive, Boston-Gore (4hours), at least once a month during the winter. I have done that drive with several vehicles, from a Cooper Mini to an F150. I believe the Rivian will be great, for two reasons: The low CG, as opposed to another SUV/truck and the 4 motors.
Now here is what I really don’t like about the Tesla (or other EV) when driving on heavy snowy condition: the regenerative breaking. Tesla (and Rivian) should create a snow mode, where the regen is very low. I am a big believer on one pedal driving but the regen should be tuned for snowy conditions when that’s the case. Yes, I can put it on low with the Tesla but it’s still too strong for my taste especially when you release first pressure from the accelerator. I lost traction a couple of times because the front wheels locked on me. Nothing too dangerous but it is a surprise every time when the wheels lock on you.

As far as the battery, the Model 3 has similar range (300+) and I do have to make a stop during the winter (snow or no snow, heating on, 80mph), usually somewhere in Albany and if lucky somewhere around Glens Falls. It’s not a big deal for me as by the time we go to the bathroom, grab something to eat and be back the car is past the min level required to make it to my destination. Now this is the big unknown for me with a non Tesla car, how is the charging infrastructure outside of Tesla? Yes, there are options but nothing like Tesla so far. Who knows, maybe I will be surprised.

 

[graemebshaw]

I agree mostly with everyone else.

As far as owning an EV, I currently own a Model 3 (since 2018) and I never kept a vehicle as long before. I am also planning to keep it at least for another 5 years. For two reasons, the car is so much fun to drive, especially on the Adirondack roads (more on that later) and my car is so much better now than when I bought it 4 years ago.

As far as driving during the winter. To start, let me say this: 1/ Colorado snow is different from the New England one (heavier) and 2/ I am a big believer on snow tires. Keeping that in mind, here is my take. As far as driving on the I-87, I can give you my perspective as I do a similar drive, Boston-Gore (4hours), at least once a month during the winter. I have done that drive with several vehicles, from a Cooper Mini to an F150. I believe the Rivian will be great, for two reasons: The low CG, as opposed to another SUV/truck and the 4 motors.
Now here is what I really don’t like about the Tesla (or other EV) when driving on heavy snowy condition: the regenerative breaking. Tesla (and Rivian) should create a snow mode, where the regen is very low. I am a big believer on one pedal driving but the regen should be tuned for snowy conditions when that’s the case. Yes, I can put it on low with the Tesla but it’s still too strong for my taste especially when you release first pressure from the accelerator. I lost traction a couple of times because the front wheels locked on me. Nothing too dangerous but it is a surprise every time when the wheels lock on you.

As far as the battery, the Model 3 has similar range (300+) and I do have to make a stop during the winter (snow or no snow, heating on, 80mph), usually somewhere in Albany and if lucky somewhere around Glens Falls. It’s not a big deal for me as by the time we go to the bathroom, grab something to eat and be back the car is past the min level required to make it to my destination. Now this is the big unknown for me with a non Tesla car, how is the charging infrastructure outside of Tesla? Yes, there are options but nothing like Tesla so far. Who knows, maybe I will be surprised.

Great response, thank you. My house is near Gore and we have season tix so maybe we might see you there next year...

Your comment on the regen is exactly my fear. When things suddenly get squirrely, how will I have the mind-power not to lift totally and jump on the brake? Lifting (and the regen) might break the traction, and then instinctively jumping on the brake makes it worse. Not solely a criticism of the car, more a questioning of my inexperience with EV driving.

Also, FWIW, there is a DC fast charger in the Walmart near Albany when I-87 splits. That would be my (and your) only option up there before getting to a home charger.

 

[graemebshaw]

OP is not a solid candidate for a Rivian, he is better off with a Subaru and call it a day......

Sadly (for me), that is kind of where my head is at too. Maybe a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, but yes, something like that. I may change my mind again before 1Q23 when I would have to actually commit. Until then I can enjoy wheeling in the Blubicon, with the top down and the hemi roaring!

 

[Olsonsolar]

The second reason is really the point for this post (to ask advice from current owners about snowy highway driving). I need a vehicle to comfortably and safely get me from NYC to the Adirondacks every weekend, which is a 240 mile 4-hour drive up I-87. Now, it seems like I-87 is frequently unplowed when I drive it (Fri night or Sat morning), and several stretches have high winds. The winter temp is often in the single digits or below. Over the past two years, I have had several butt-clenching moments when my vehicle started sliding at highway speeds. One time I got pushed sideways by the wind across two icy lanes, at 50 mph, and only just managed to catch it before hitting the curb. It's scary enough in an ICE SUV or the Jeep (with snow tires). The thought of such a slide in a 7000lb R1T (with more torque and less feedback) terrifies me. Surface streets don't scare me because the speeds are so manageable. But snowy/icy/windy highways... ugh.

Maybe slow down and take winter driving conditions into account. Would make it safer for everyone.

 

[mini2nut]

I have viewed tons of 392 Wrangler reviews on YT. The 475 HP Hemi V8 Wrangler puts a grin on owners faces every time they get behind the wheel. Every owner comments that the V8 exhaust rumble is intoxicating.

Stuff the biggest corporate V8 under the hood. The 5.7L would have been more practical, but no, Jeep decided on the huge 6.4L Hemi. It’s Jeeps way of giving the middle finger to the world before they are forced to transition to BEV’s. With fairly low production numbers 392’s will be a future collectible. Yes, I want one before they go the way of the Do Do bird.

 

[graemebshaw]

I have viewed tons of 392 Wrangler reviews on YT. The 475 HP Hemi V8 Wrangler puts a grin on owners faces every time they get behind the wheel. Every owner comments that the V8 exhaust rumble is intoxicating.

Stuff the biggest corporate V8 under the hood. The 5.7L would have been more practical, but no, Jeep decided on the huge 6.4L Hemi. It’s Jeeps way of giving the middle finger to the world before they are forced to transition to BEV’s. With fairly low production numbers 392’s will be a future collectible. Yes, I want one before they go the way of the Do Do bird.

It's the most lovable and hilarious vehicle I have ever owned or ridden in. Totally unsafe at speed, a handful if driven spiritedly, but just wild fun. And being a jeep, imminently upgradeable. My Sunday plans are to install a new bumper and some trail lights...

 

[RivianBowerbird]

Great response, thank you. My house is near Gore and we have season tix so maybe we might see you there next year...

Your comment on the regen is exactly my fear. When things suddenly get squirrely, how will I have the mind-power not to lift totally and jump on the brake? Lifting (and the regen) might break the traction, and then instinctively jumping on the brake makes it worse. Not solely a criticism of the car, more a questioning of my inexperience with EV driving.

Also, FWIW, there is a DC fast charger in the Walmart near Albany when I-87 splits. That would be my (and your) only option up there before getting to a home charger.

Re: Regen and snow. People seem to be unaware that the amount of regen is up to you. You feather the throttle slowly and the car will coast or regen as slowly as you want. It's quite easy to do. It's not an on/off switch.

 

[mkg3]

Re: Regen and snow. People seem to be unaware that the amount of regen is up to you. You feather the throttle slowly and the car will coast or regen as slowly as you want. It's quite easy to do. It's not an on/off switch.

Yeah I was going to say the same thing. Its true and I can control the regen by feathering the pedal. That's how I drive whenever driving my Model 3. The problem is that most people get used to OPD and they become a digital pedal drivers (on or off).

An exception is that in a panic, most people will get off the accelerator digitally and step on the brake pedal. Clearly not good in snow but its a natural reaction unless one has significant snow driving time.

The other situation is finding road debris to avoid, that you did not see ahead of time or an event that happens suddenly in front of you by other drivers.

OP's issue of bad things happen with heavier vehicle is really valid. Once the traction is lost, heavier vehicle has more kinetic energy so the impact result is greater. The trajectory of the vehicle cannot be changed until some traction is regained. During the slide, the driver is a just a passenger.

 

[Max]

Re: Regen and snow. People seem to be unaware that the amount of regen is up to you. You feather the throttle slowly and the car will coast or regen as slowly as you want. It's quite easy to do. It's not an on/off switch.

True but as OP mentioned his concern is about lack of experience. Which I share. Four decades of programming on how gas pedal and break pedal works may kick in when something hit the fan and you go on auto response. Currently in my ICE when something unexpected happens, my right foot immediately leaves the gas pedal and hovers over break ready to press if the threat is real. On snow and ICE, I try to leave the break alone as much as I can. But if that reflex kick in driving R1 in slippery condition, as soon as I let go of the go/gas pedal, I get max Regen. This problem is compounded by the fact that I am constantly switching between driving my wife’s car which will be ICE for at least another decade and mine

 

[crashmtb]

True but as OP mentioned his concern is about lack of experience. Which I share. Four decades of programming on how gas pedal and break pedal works may kick in when something hit the fan and you go on auto response. Currently in my ICE when something unexpected happens, my right foot immediately leaves the gas pedal and hovers over break ready to press if the threat is real. On snow and ICE, I try to leave the break alone as much as I can. But if that reflex kick in driving R1 in slippery condition, as soon as I let go of the go/gas pedal, I get max Regen. This problem is compounded by the fact that I am constantly switching between driving my wife’s car which will be ICE for at least another decade and mine

I have never found regen/one pedal driving to be an issue. Just modulate the accelerator. I’ve never even thought about it, until seeing posts here.

then again I’ve only owned manual transmission’d vehicles.

 

[RivianNE]

True but as OP mentioned his concern about lack of experience. Which I share. Four decades of programming on how gas pedal and break pedal works may kick in when something hit the fan and you go on auto response. Currently in my ICE when something unexpected happens, my right foot immediately leaves the gas pedal and hovers over break ready to press if the threat is real. On snow and ICE, I try to leave the break alone as much as I can. But if that reflex kick in driving R1 in slippery condition, as soon as I let go of the go/gas pedal, I get max Regen. This problem is compounded by the fact that I am constantly switching between driving my car which will be ICE for at least another decade.

As far as the comment regarding the lack of experience previously posted I respectfully disagree. It’s true when you are on a dry or wet surface, you can have a good control on your breaking, not when you are driving on 3”+ of snow and you need to slow down without locking your wheels. In these scenarios I just want to use the car’s weight and drag to stop. Even in a dry surface it’s very hard to find that middle ground where the regen and the power are both off.

 

[André]

To your first point, EV’s owners will stick to them longer than ICE cars on average because they are continuously updated over the air. I have a Model Y which is 2.5 years old and still almost identical to a brand new version because new features are added OTA frequently.

Regarding your concern in winter conditions, a simple solution: get REAL winter tires. Rivian will obviously be more safe than a Jeep because of its weight but ANY car/truck on 4 seasons tires (even if they have the snow logo homologation) will be unsafe on ice. What tires do you have on your current Jeep ?

 

[RivianNE]

I have never found regen/one pedal driving to be an issue. Just modulate the accelerator. I’ve never even thought about it, until seeing posts here.

then again I’ve only owned manual transmission’d vehicles.

A manual car is not the same as an EV, at least not like my Model 3. Manual transmission is great for these kind of scenarios but again because you can choose when you want to apply that breaking force.

 

[thrill]

A manual car is not the same as an EV, at least not like my Model 3. Manual transmission is great for these kind of scenarios but again because you can choose when you want to apply that breaking force.

Whether you're using the one pedal regenerative braking or the mechanical braking you're able to control the magnitude of the braking force by modulating the amount you press or release the appropriate pedals.

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