Giga Casting Evolution - Rivian Should Take Note

[tk21]

Great breakdown by Sandy on the evolution and why the “cost of quality” is better for the company…and us as shareholders/customers… to go the full casting route instead of shingled stamping like is done on R1’s today.

Will be interesting to see if Rivian takes note, especially after the R1T teardown comments from Munro.

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[Sgt Beavis]

Rivian has a lot of costs to recoup before they start making major changes to the R1 platform. Maybe they’d consider it for the R2 but I think Tesla also owns a lot of patents on this process.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Except the casting has some cracks. Who knows if they would have ended up meaning the whole casting fails.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Rivian won’t replace the machines they have, I imagine. But they want to ramp the R1’s significantly and bring on the R2’s quickly. That’s going to mean more presses and more plants. If it’s as good as Munro says, gigacasting will become the norm for new plants, including for Rivian.

 

[Aubs]

I would take everything Munro says with a grain of salt. He doesn't even have an engineering degree.

The only thing cast parts are good for are lower cost. They have inferior mechanical properties to forming operations such as bending or forging. Which means you need more material just to have the same strength. Gigapress is all marketing.

 

[crashmtb]

Except the casting has some cracks. Who knows if they would have ended up meaning the whole casting fails.

If that’s what the ones that were good enough to pass NDT are like…their yield must suuuuck.

and the munro people are just creaming’ their jeans over it

 

[Dark-Fx]

If that’s what the ones that were good enough to pass NDT are like…their yield must suuuuck.

and the munro people are just creaming’ their jeans over it

It's definitely a big deal to be able to successfully reduce their part count, but I think the goal of reducing it to a single part instead of two halves isn't a very productive goal if it means they have longevity issues.

 

[mini2nut]

Rivian could not justify the large capital expense at this tIme. Maybe for R1T 2.0 but that’s years away.

 

[crashmtb]

It's definitely a big deal to be able to successfully reduce their part count, but I think the goal of reducing it to a single part instead of two halves isn't a very productive goal if it means they have longevity issues.

Penny wise pound foolish and all that. Munro et Al don’t really seem to care one tiny bit about longevity or serviceability.


part of DFMA is balancing mfg efficiencies with serviceability….if you are at all concerned about the lifecycle of the thing.

otherwise…I suppose throw the whole thing out is more efficient than being able to fix it 🫠

 

[Zybane]

I would take everything Munro says with a grain of salt. He doesn't even have an engineering degree.

That doesn't mean anything. Some of the least intelligent people I've ever met had degrees. I also know of someone with a Doctorate that doesn't know basic statistics.

 

[Aubs]

That doesn't mean anything. Some of the least intelligent people I've ever met had degrees. I also know of someone with a Doctorate that doesn't know basic statistics.

Agreed on the intelligence point =) but if your going to call yourself an engineer and charge your clients big bucks as an engineering consultant you should atleast have a degree.

There's a reason why civil engineers need a license to practice, because people die when things go wrong. Not too different when working on structural members in automotive imo.

 

[NY_Rob]

otherwise…I suppose throw the whole thing out is more efficient than being able to fix it

One issue debated since Tesla introduced Mega Castings is repairability. But, in reality... for the last several years now insurance co's policies have been steadily trending towards "if the airbags deploy... it's totaled". Any collision severe enough to damage the main castings would likely cause airbag deployment resulting in a "totaled" vehicle in any case. No need to repair castings on a totaled vehicle, part it out as scrappers have been doing for decades.

 

[Zybane]

One issue debated since Tesla introduced Mega Castings is repairability. But, in reality... for the last several years now insurance co's policies have been steadily trending towards "if the airbags deploy... it's totaled". Any collision severe enough to damage the main castings would likely cause airbag deployment resulting in a "totaled" vehicle in any case. No need to repair castings on a totaled vehicle, part it out as scrappers have been doing for decades.

Yup, repair/labor costs per hour (profit) have increased so much that even vehicles moderately damaged are starting to be totaled out.

 

[NY_Rob]

Yup, repair/labor costs per hour (profit) have increased so much that even vehicles moderately damaged are starting to be totaled out.

Yes.... My bro in-law had a 2yr old CRV at his body shop that had a driver side front corner hit (a car hit another car.. and that car careened into the CRV). He told me the estimate came out to $18K!! To me it looked totally repairable, but he told me it was totaled because the driver airbag deployed and it was only a $24K car (2 yrs ago).

Some insurance co's won't even insure salvage titles any longer. The whole auto body repair game is changing in a major way right now.

 

[jjwolf120]

One thing to note is that gigacasting is more valuable for larger volumes of production, so I wouldn't ever expect it to be used on the R1 line.

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