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General question on EV Disaster preparation

Daedalus

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One discussion that frequently comes up after a storm like Ida (or other natural disaster) is how EV owners handle widespread and protracted power outages.
While power outages affect gas powered cars, there are some gas stations that use generators to keep the pumps going (for a limited time) or you can travel outside of the direct impact area of the storm and you will be able to find some operational gas station.
Is the solution for EV owners to plan for Solar power and battery storage for their homes as well ?
Will Rivian invest in building superChargers that are Solar powered similarly to Tesla's plans?

https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/egeb...t-ev-and-gas-drivers-and-power/#disqus_thread

P.s. I noticed that there is at least one company working on a solar bed cover. I doubt that it is viable this is right now, but I know that solar panels are getting more efficient, so hopefully this becomes useful in the future.
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timf

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Solar can be an effective backup power source for typical residential usage, although depending on the type of event their usefulness could be impacted. For wind events such as a hurricane, there's a high probability of roof damage which could directly impact the panels. For winter storms, a layer of snow could block production on top of the reduced solar intensity. They are best for sporadic outages, then it comes down to how many panels and how big of a battery you can afford to install.

For public installations like charging stations, solar has limited usefulness aside from a supplemental source. Again, you would need an array and/or battery pack big enough to supply continued usage. Otherwise, it would only be able to charge a few cars on a full cycle. Tesla has done some massive installations, but it would be impractical to equip every charging station with the utility sized packs that would allow continued operation during an emergency.
 

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One discussion that frequently comes up after a storm is how EV owners handle widespread and protracted power outages.
While power outages affect gas powered cars, there are some gas stations that use generators to keep the pumps going (for a limited time) or you can travel outside of the direct impact area of the storm and you will be able to find some operational gas station.
Is the solution for EV owners to plan for Solar power and battery storage for their homes as well ?
Will Rivian invest in building superChargers that are Solar powered similarly to Tesla's plans?

https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/egeb...t-ev-and-gas-drivers-and-power/#disqus_thread

P.s. I noticed that there is at least one company working on a solar bed cover. Not sure how viable this is right now, but I know that solar panels are getting more efficient, so hopefully this becomes useful.
Home solar that isn't grid tied can be an option but "solar" powered DCFC aren't exactly that as the amount of power needed is a lot more than you can get with any normal sized site. So they are typically buying offsets or building a grid tied solar system and claiming the solar produced from that.

The truck bed gets you about the size of 1 panel. It's not enough to do much as it would get you like 8 miles worth of charging a day. Not nothing, but in a power out situation it's not enough to power critical appliances or get you evacuated if low on charge.

Charging to 100% and then using V2H capabilities (eventually) would get you several days worth of power which is enough for most situations. Gas generators could still supplement charging even (not ideal but if its an emergency...)
 

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The most viable economic solution is to use a gas generator even though the optics of it seem undesirable, in an emergency we have to deal with less than optimum conditions.
 

Trekkie

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The most viable economic solution is to use a gas generator even though the optics of it seem undesirable, in an emergency we have to deal with less than optimum conditions.
One thing to note on this is you need to modify the power output some. If it has a 'floating' ground EVSE chargers won't work with it (guess how I figured that out, teenager + ev = sitting on side of road 2miles from house)

I have not done this, as I am not an electrician and finding something on the internet that says 'take a power cord, cut end of, hook the neutral to ground and plug it into one of the generators outlets' had me pucker up a bit thinking of doing this at 1am. Tow truck it was.

I've been watching for developments on this company https://insideevs.com/news/411676/sparkcharge-portable-ev-charger-roadside-assistance/ 'Sparkcharge' that has a stackable multi-battery portable charger...well kinda portable big batteries are heavy.

Not sure it's great for home use. We've had a few issues with power over the 4 years I've had EVs, but even one hurricane didn't affect us enough to cause a concern. with 250+ range you've got plenty of time to gtfo the way of something like a storm, and if you leave it on the charger every night to top off even an 'grab and go' emergency you can get far enough away unless it's a massive issue but even then gas cars with 13 gallon tanks are affected it gas pumps have no power.
 

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Trekkie

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Temerarius

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We have a small set of solar panels and a handful of PowerWalls that we use to handle the random (and damn annoying) power blinks that hit our place (or when a major windstorm comes through and we are out of juice for a day or so).

We haven't had any issues keeping the house juiced and the Tesla in this situation. The Wall uses the solar to trickle charge in the day, the grid to keep topped off (as it does cycle and kills power from the grid in the day and powers the house based on solar charge and battery capacity).

We by no means run off solar though, we have a very small solar array, mainly just designed to help augment the battery incase the grid does go down for an extended period and help us limp along.

Really, it's a proof of concept.
 

ajdelange

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Is the solution for EV owners to plan for Solar power and battery storage for their homes as well ?
Yes, I think so. When the utility is down more or less permanently and the fuel truck can't get to you or you can't get to the gas station the sun will continue to shine if not every day. But the key word here is "battery". These are, right now, in short supply (my solar supplier who serves 3 states and DC is allocated 4 Powerwalls per month) and, consequently, expensive.

The ideal system to my way of thinking would be a solar system backed up primarily by the utility and secondarily by battery with the battery backed up by a generator but I can't figure out how to make off the shelf stuff play together in that configuration (because of anti islanding requirements).

The consequence of all this is that most people who have backup for whatever, including BEV charging, rely on a generator. It's already been noted here that an adequate generator can be had for much less than a battery based system.
 

kneebuster

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I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on this system EcoFlow DELTA Pro: The Portable Home Battery by EcoFlow — Kickstarter . I've got rooftop solar, but no storage solution. While this would be somewhat more expensive than a PowerWall for the same capacity, it is much more flexible. One or more units could be put in the bed of my R1T for times when I might need the emergency range. Combined with their portable solar, and generator, it might be the ideal solution.
 

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I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on this system EcoFlow DELTA Pro: The Portable Home Battery by EcoFlow — Kickstarter . I've got rooftop solar, but no storage solution. While this would be somewhat more expensive than a PowerWall for the same capacity, it is much more flexible. One or more units could be put in the bed of my R1T for times when I might need the emergency range. Combined with their portable solar, and generator, it might be the ideal solution.
I like the usefulness of something like the ecoflow since solar can get plugged directly into it and it could be used more regularly for camping in addition to an emergency backup. Also there are extra battery modules that can be added for extra capacity. Have you seen the video about ecoflow on YouTube by jerryrigeverything (also the humvee he is converting to electric?)
 

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If looking for a long term solution I wouldn't count on a natural gas generator. Once oil demand and production starts to significantly drop the access to cheap natural gas will disappear quickly. Natural gas is so cheap due to being a by product of oil extraction. Oil demand will be much lower by 2030 and natural gas will supply will suffer too. I'd rather have a battery charged from local solar or the grid than rely on the natural gas supply.
 

ajdelange

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I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on this system EcoFlow DELTA Pro: The Portable Home Battery by EcoFlow — Kickstarter . I've got rooftop solar, but no storage solution. While this would be somewhat more expensive than a PowerWall for the same capacity, it is much more flexible. One or more units could be put in the bed of my R1T for times when I might need the emergency range. Combined with their portable solar, and generator, it might be the ideal solution.
People considering battery backed solar for long term utility outages really need to work some numbers. Just as an example the biggest EcoFlow system holds 25 kWh. Your R1T has 400 miles range from a 130 kWh battery. You can do the math.

In a long term utility outage all the energy you collect comes must come from the sun. So if you need to drive your R1T 100 miles you will have to get 48 kWh of energy from the sun. That takes 4.8 hrs of full sunshine from a 10 kW system (about 33 panels) which is very doable in the summer time but will take a couple of days to collect in the winter (there are places in the US that are considerably better than this and places that are considerably worse).

I've got rooftop solar, but no storage solution.
Then you probably would not be able to charge the EcoFlow (I keep laughing at that name because it is the brand name of a critical component in our septic system) from your solar system when the utility is down.

While this would be somewhat more expensive than a PowerWall for the same capacity, it is much more flexible. One or more units could be put in the bed of my R1T for times when I might need the emergency range. Combined with their portable solar, and generator, it might be the ideal solution.
Powerwalls, of course, can charge from solar in an off grid system but you can't get Powerwalls.

The EcoFlow (other than its name) looks like a nifty system but not for whole house battery storage in an off grid system. One thing I'll point out from the videos linked above is that it is quite possible to run a 240V panel from a single 120V inverter (I'm doing it now with a Yeti pack). I won't go into the details out of safety concerns.
 

BigSkies

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I guess I don’t get the need. If a big storm is coming, you charge to 100% beforehand and have ~300 miles of range. And you don’t have to worry about gas station lines.

After a storm, you’d either be taking slow 5-10 mile trips around town, or heading to a GTFO destination that still has power. If there’s prolonged and sustained power outages, you’re not exactly commuting to work.

I don’t see any scenario with predictable storms where 300 miles wouldn’t be enough.

Maybe I’d worry a bit more in earthquake country, just because you can’t pre-charge your battery. But earthquake country doesn’t have gas stations that are any more prepared for power outages. You’d be screwed, but no more so than someone in an ICE vehicle.
 

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Solaredge just announced a new inverter/battery version that can provide backup power. The cool thing is the power to charge the battery from solar stays dc so conversion losses are minimized. I just installed my solar last year with a solaredge inverter but if it ever needs to be replaced I would look at upgrading my inverter and adding battery storage, especially since my power company is shifting to time of use.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...h-Backup-Power-Now-Available-in-North-America
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