Gen2 Max vs Large Battery - Prior Logic still Hold?

[bigzaj]

Looking at a R1S Dual with either large or max battery. Most driving will be around the city commuting ~100 miles a day with occasional short haul trip. Reading prior to the Gen2 the Max battery seemed to not make sense in practice with only like 14kwh more capacity (realistic 25-30 miles?) The spread is now 141kwh vs 109kwh. Seems like the Max battery makes more sense now than before or are most people still bypassing it ... 70 miles range for $7K is still quite a bit.

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[Electrified Outdoors]

Bigger difference in Gen2. Worth it is subjective …even the standard could handle a 100mi commute assuming that’s round trip.

new large battery is about 110 kWh vs 131 kWh of the Gen 1

Gen 2 max is still 142 kWh usable but in gen2 the max is about 32 kWh larger then the large pack.

If you think you’ll use that range fairly regularly and fast charging on the routes that you travel can be sketchy then max pack may definitely be worth it. If you don’t think you’ll use the range that much and you have excellent fast charging options on the routes that you typically travel then you might opt to save the money and just get the large.

 

[R1TandMe]

It’s Like anything, the more the better.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I got it because it comes with the Ascend, but it's still a worthwhile addition. That extra range allows you to go a little farther but, more importantly, stay in the sweet spot of the charge curve between chargers more easily. That ability pays dividends on road trips.

 

[DayTripping]

What everyone else said, but you’re also carrying extra weight. If you don’t need it, it will also impact efficiency in town, as well as accelerate and wear on things like tires and adversely impact performance, such as acceleration and braking.

I wish they kept the large pack the same size in the Gen2's. But since the max was so close to the large, they had to do something in Gen2 to force people to upgrade to it. With my Gen1, I absolutely would not have paid for a max pack with only about a 10% size increase. The price delta was crazy for the limited extra capacity.

 

[norivian]

My daily round trip is 50 miles. I have a max pack so I start to charge even less than the daily recommended 70%.

When I drove around to places with sparse charging network availability over the holidays, I am glad I have a max pack.

Overall, I would say it’s worth having it - for those trips you will only do occasionally.

 

[portdirect]

Comparing Gen1 and Gen2 is hard, looking at net capacities (ie what you can use):

Gen 1 Vehicles

• Standard: 106 kWh
• Standard+: 121 kWh
• Large: 131 kWh
• Max: 141 kWh

Gen 2 Vehicles

• Standard: 92.5 kWh
• Large: 108.5 kWh
• Large+: 108.5 kWh
• Max: 140 kWh

So the max got a tiny bit smaller with the Gen2, whist the gen2 large is basically the same as a gen1 standard. The gen1 max was not worth it for many, but as a result of the neutured Large pack in gen2, may well be the one to get. Note that many (potentially all?) folks with Gen2 Max packs are seeing odd charging beyond ~82% SoC right now that makes getting its full capacity very hard when L2 charging. As a result *right now* I view our gen2 max pack as being around the same utility as a gen1 large - I really hope this view changes soon.

If you don't want a tri motor/ascend interior, right now if there are any Large+ inventory left, its likely the best battery Rivian have made to date (being a further locked down gen2 large) for daily commuting - the following table helps show this:

		Net Capacity	Desired End-of-day SoC	End-of-day Charge Remaining	Charge SoC Limit	Charge Limit in kWh	Daily Usable Capacity	Assumed Efficiency	Daily Range
Gen1	Standard	106.0 kWh​	20%​	21.2 kWh​	70%​	74.2 kWh​	53.0 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	111 miles​
	Standard+	121.0 kWh​	20%​	24.2 kWh​	70%​	84.7 kWh​	60.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	127 miles​
	Large	131.0 kWh​	20%​	26.2 kWh​	70%​	91.7 kWh​	65.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	138 miles​
	Max	141.0 kWh​	20%​	28.2 kWh​	70%​	98.7 kWh​	70.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	148 miles​
Gen2	Standard	92.5 kWh​	20%​	18.5 kWh​	70%​	64.8 kWh​	46.3 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	97 miles​
	Large	108.5 kWh​	20%​	21.7 kWh​	70%​	76.0 kWh​	54.3 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	114 miles​
	Large+	108.5 kWh​	20%​	21.7 kWh​	85%*​	92.2 kWh​	70.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	148 miles​
	Max	140.0 kWh​	20%​	28.0 kWh​	70%​	98.0 kWh​	70.0 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	147 miles​

(* Large+ Charge SoC set to 85% to match approx. same gross consumption of nominal capacity as gen2 max pack)

Edit: @DayTripping, doing the math on the cost difference (via public sources, so *over-estimating* them) - The gen1 max pack was costing less than $850 more than the gen1 large, charging $10k extra for it was a nice mark up.

 

[bfilippo]

Comparing Gen1 and Gen2 is hard, looking at net capacities (ie what you can use):

Gen 1 Vehicles

• Standard: 106 kWh
• Standard+: 121 kWh
• Large: 131 kWh
• Max: 141 kWh

Gen 2 Vehicles

• Standard: 92.5 kWh
• Large: 108.5 kWh
• Large+: 108.5 kWh
• Max: 140 kWh

So the max got a tiny bit smaller with the Gen2, whist the gen2 large is basically the same as a gen1 standard. The gen1 max was not worth it for many, but as a result of the neutured Large pack in gen2, may well be the one to get. Note that many (potentially all?) folks with Gen2 Max packs are seeing odd charging beyond ~82% SoC right now that makes getting its full capacity very hard when L2 charging. As a result *right now* I view our gen2 max pack as being around the same utility as a gen1 large - I really hope this view changes soon.

If you don't want a tri motor/ascend interior, right now if there are any Large+ inventory left, its likely the best battery Rivian have made to date (being a further locked down gen2 large) for daily commuting - the following table helps show this:

		Net Capacity	Desired End-of-day SoC	End-of-day Charge Remaining	Charge SoC Limit	Charge Limit in kWh	Daily Usable Capacity	Assumed Efficiency	Daily Range
Gen1	Standard	106.0 kWh​	20%​	21.2 kWh​	70%​	74.2 kWh​	53.0 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	111 miles​
	Standard+	121.0 kWh​	20%​	24.2 kWh​	70%​	84.7 kWh​	60.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	127 miles​
	Large	131.0 kWh​	20%​	26.2 kWh​	70%​	91.7 kWh​	65.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	138 miles​
	Max	141.0 kWh​	20%​	28.2 kWh​	70%​	98.7 kWh​	70.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	148 miles​
Gen2	Standard	92.5 kWh​	20%​	18.5 kWh​	70%​	64.8 kWh​	46.3 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	97 miles​
	Large	108.5 kWh​	20%​	21.7 kWh​	70%​	76.0 kWh​	54.3 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	114 miles​
	Large+	108.5 kWh​	20%​	21.7 kWh​	85%*​	92.2 kWh​	70.5 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	148 miles​
	Max	140.0 kWh​	20%​	28.0 kWh​	70%​	98.0 kWh​	70.0 kWh​	2.1 m/kWh​	147 miles​

(* Large+ Charge SoC set to 85% to match approx. same gross consumption of nominal capacity as gen2 max pack)

Edit: @DayTripping, doing the math on the cost difference (via public sources, so *over-estimating* them) - The gen1 max pack was costing less than $850 more than the gen1 large, charging $10k extra for it was a nice mark up.

This is helpful! I’m considering a used R1S to go with our Gen2 R1T to replace our Model Y. Now I just need to find a used Large or Large+ R1S somewhere.

Does anyone know if you can get Rivian to deliver a used vehicle found via RR despite it not being “available” for your zip code? Northeast doesn’t have used inventory yet.

 

[DayTripping]

Comparing Gen1 and Gen2 is hard, looking at net capacities (ie what you can use):

Edit: @DayTripping, doing the math on the cost difference (via public sources, so *over-estimating* them) - The gen1 max pack was costing less than $850 more than the gen1 large, charging $10k extra for it was a nice mark up.

Nice comparison. You approached as I would, such as what my daily usable capacity would be.

As for pricing, mark up is being generous, rip off would be more accurate. Now that they nerfed the Gen2 packs, none make much sense other than the Max. Unless you get a unicorn Large+. The reduction pack sizes to force you toward a Max pack is another reason I skipped on buying a Gen2.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Rivian is trying to bring costs down and one of the ways they are able to do that is by offering less battery at a lower price point on Gen2.

Rivian published usable capacity differs slightly from what the EPA was able to pull out of max pack (142 kWh if you round up and 141 if you round down). Rivian could have slightly reduced usable capacity since.

If you have fast and reliable fast charging and your daily commute is within the range of standard pack it’s an excellent value.

because the cost goes up so much with max pack and based on the incentives I see on dual max….it would appear many max pack customers are opting to go with a Tri Max instead which makes sense.

Rivian has to get their costs under control to become profitable and the battery is the most expensive component in the vehicle.

260-270 mi is still a very decent range. I think 250 is kind of the sweet spot. Go below that and it becomes a little less practical. The more you go above that the more the price becomes an issue.

 

[Rividiculous]

I’m happy with my Max pack gen 2 but only because I have a quirky situation where I can’t L2 charge at home regularly and need to be able to do 130 plus miles round trip regularly, and some other weird constraints. I think I’m an edge case. (Of course, lots of city dwellers who don’t drive a lot but can’t charge at home are also edge cases right now.)

Almost any other time in my life (and especially if I could park and L2 charge in my garage regularly), I’d be happy with a smaller battery.

 

[meshugy]

This is helpful! I’m considering a used R1S to go with our Gen2 R1T to replace our Model Y. Now I just need to find a used Large or Large+ R1S somewhere.

Does anyone know if you can get Rivian to deliver a used vehicle found via RR despite it not being “available” for your zip code? Northeast doesn’t have used inventory yet.

22 Large+ equipped R1S’s here:

https://rivianroamer.com/inventory?...S&battery[]=BAT-LP01&ev_credit=0&nationwide=0

 

[malditofman]

Looking at a R1S Dual with either large or max battery. Most driving will be around the city commuting ~100 miles a day with occasional short haul trip. Reading prior to the Gen2 the Max battery seemed to not make sense in practice with only like 14kwh more capacity (realistic 25-30 miles?) The spread is now 141kwh vs 109kwh. Seems like the Max battery makes more sense now than before or are most people still bypassing it ... 70 miles range for $7K is still quite a bit.

If just driving 100 miles or less each day and you can charge at home each night off peak then even the standard battery may be just fine. Even on an occasional road trip, at 60 mph you'd need to charge every 3.5 to 4 hours which is perfect fro driver fatigue breaks. The Max pack is $14000 more than the standard pack. I go camping in remote areas so I spent the money and got the Max pack. Everyone's usage scenario is different. Don't overdose on YouTube videos that go into ridiculous minutiae on battery pack kilowatt size and charging curves etc. Be honest about your true needs and buy the battery pack the fits your daily range estimates. Don't overthink. Drive well.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Don't overthink

Great advice. It’s a work in progress ?

 

[BeckyB]

I got the Max because most of my driving is commute, but winter weekends we drive to steamboat, with cold temps, snow mode using more juice, NO CHARGERS on route, and no cell service make for a scenario that necessitates having the max option. As others have said, it really depends on what your needs and comfort levels are - I have already been grateful this season to have the Max in these conditions.

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